Flores on failure to reach Canton: “Confusing and frustrating”


flores

(Tom Flores’ photos courtesy of Oakland Raiders)

Talk of Fame Network

Tom Flores was the first Hispanic quarterback in the NFL. He was the first Hispanic head coach in the NFL. And he was the first minority coach to win a Super Bowl. In fact, he won two. And he won two more – one as a player and one as an assistant coach – to join Mike Ditka as the only persons in NFL history to touch all four bases.

So why isn’t Tom Flores in the Pro Football Hall of Fame? Good question.

But don’t ask Flores. We did on the latest Talk of Fame Network broadcast, and it’s not just that he doesn’t know;  he doesn’t understand, either, throwing up his hands when asked if he wonders what keeps him out.

“Yes, I do,” he said. “I have to be honest with you. I do wonder. Without mentioning names other people that are in the Hall, I felt I have accomplished a lot in my career. It’s been a long career. Winning two Super Bowls — one in Oakland and one in L.A. — and living in a hotel room for 14 months in doing so. Working for Al Davis alone I should be in the Hall of Fame.”

That last sentence was a joke. But Flores’ absence from Canton isn’t. He simply doesn’t get it, and, apparently, neither did Davis – who, incidentally, is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

“Even when Al and I would get together – and he was my biggest backer – he said, ‘Maybe that’s the wrong thing for me to do … and that’s to back you, ‘ “ Flores said. “But I seem to get overshadowed in his shadow. Al was such a dynamic personality. It was always his team; it was never my team. And that’s just the way it was.

“I accepted that. But I don’t accept what the facts prove. It’s kind of confusing and frustrating at times, but what am I going to do? I’m not a voter. I coached with the Raiders, (and) I still do the radio broadcasts for the Raiders. A lot of first things that I did in this league were the first things in this league.”

What’s more puzzling than Flores’ failure to reach Canton is his failure to make it on the ballot as a finalist. He has never been one of the final 15 discussed by the Hall’s board of selectors.

Today, Flores serves as an analyst on Raiders’ broadcasts, and the job is more attractive now that Oakland seems be on track. OK, so the Raiders are 2-3. But they’re back on the map, taking Denver to the mat and getting nosed out by Chicago in the last minute.

More important, take a look at the standings, people. The Raiders are in second in the AFC West, and, as Flores noted, while that may not play in San Diego or Kansas City, having the Raiders competitive again is good for the NFL.

“There’s light at the end of the tunnel for them,” he said, “and I think that’s really good. The Raiders need to be relevant again in the National Football League because we have so many fans all over the country – west coast, east coast. You need to be relevant again.”

And the difference? Well, it certainly helps that they’re out from under the salary cap and that general manger Reggie McKenzie is making smart personnel decisions. But Flores thinks it’s more than that. He thinks having a legitimate starter at quarterback – and we’re talking Derek Carr — makes everything easier.

“If you don’t have that guy,” he said, “it doesn’t make a difference who the other guys are. He’s not going to get the job done for you. And the Raiders unfortunately in the last 10 years have made some dramatic mistakes drafting a quarterbacks — Jamarcus Russell being one of them. When you make a mistake with your No. 1 draft choice, especially when it’s the first guy taken in the draft, you set your team back.

“The last three or four years the Raiders have done a better job drafting. Reggie McKenzie has done a good job; Jack Del Rio seems to have good control of this team and they’re young. It’s fun to see them learning how to win again, and Jack, when he came in, said, ‘We have to change the atmosphere around here.’ And he’s done a lot to do it, even though they don’t know where they’re going to be playing next year or the year after. But they do know they’re the Silver and Black again.”

Listen now!

Previous Judgements: There's more gloom than Doom in Seattle
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18 Comments

  1. Sports Fan
    October 19, 2015
    Reply

    Mr. Clark Judge
    Mr. Ron Borges
    Mr. Rick Gosselin
    Talk Of Fame Sports Network
    =
    Please make sure ALL PFHOF Selectors receive this Web Link along with the information in this post.
    =
    Greetings!

    OUTSTANDING commentary Mr. Clark!
    =
    Re: “What’s more puzzling than Flores’ failure to reach Canton is his failure to make it on the ballot as a finalist. He has never been one of the final 15 discussed by the Hall’s board of selectors.”

    Not only “his failure to make it…as a finalist”…He has never made it to the Semi-Finalist Ballot Nominee stage in the process in 28 years!

    The three (3) Coaches who were Finalist last year are all deserving but so is Coach Tom Flores because he’s been waiting longer then two (2) of the three (3) Coaches…again they are All deserving
    =
    Again
    Please make sure ALL PFHOF Selectors receive this Web Link along with the information in this post.
    =

    Simply go to these links for more detail:

    1 – http://pfhof.blogspot.com/

    2 – http://thebrief1.blogspot.com

    CANNOT write NFL History without Tom Flores

    #46FORFLORES

  2. Sports Fan
    October 19, 2015
    Reply

    Mr. Clark Judge
    Mr. Ron Borges
    Mr. Rick Gosselin
    Talk Of Fame Sports Network
    =
    Please make sure ALL PFHOF Selectors receive this Web Link along with the information in this post.
    =
    Greetings!

    OUTSTANDING commentary Mr. Clark!
    =
    Re: “What’s more puzzling than Flores’ failure to reach Canton is his failure to make it on the ballot as a finalist. He has never been one of the final 15 discussed by the Hall’s board of selectors.”
    Not only “his failure to make it…as a finalist”…He has never made it to the Semi-Finalist Ballot Nominee stage in the process in 28 years!
    The three (3) Coaches who were Finalist last year are all deserving but so is Coach Tom Flores because he’s been waiting longer then two (2) of the three (3) Coaches…again they are All deserving
    =
    Again
    Please make sure ALL PFHOF Selectors receive this Web Link along with the information in this post.
    =
    Simply go to this link for more detail:

    http://pfhof.blogspot.com/


    CANNOT write NFL History without Tom Flores

    #46FORFLORES

  3. Sports Fan
    October 19, 2015
    Reply

    Mr. Clark Judge
    Mr. Ron Borges
    Mr. Rick Gosselin
    Talk Of Fame Sports Network
    =
    Please make sure ALL PFHOF Selectors receive this Web Link along with the information in this post.
    =

    OUTSTANDING commentary Mr. Clark! A Big Fan of your Show/Website, keep up the Great work!
    =
    See previous post for Link 1,
    here is Link 2 for more detail:

    Link 2 – http://thebrief1.blogspot.com

    CANNOT write NFL History without Tom Flores

    #46FORFLORES

  4. Steve
    October 19, 2015
    Reply

    Nice job Clark. You really nailed what bothers Raider fans about Tom’s exclusion, and it applies to Cliff Branch too; how could he never even make it to the final 15 to be vetted? And his two Super Bowl wins were dominant wins over Dick Vermeil and Joe Gibbs-coached teams. And as great as those Raiders were, they were actually underdogs both times!

    Tom won’t name names, but I will. If you’re a coach would you rather go to 4 Super Bowls and lose them all, or go 2-0, joining a small club of coaches who have won more than one? It’s no contest. I’m not saying Marv Levy shouldn’t be in, although I don’t understand how he made it so quickly. But I am saying that Flores belongs.

    • October 20, 2015
      Reply

      Really glad to hear Flores speak out about this. Usually, guys roll with the punches, but Flores was clear about the process: He doesn’t understand what’s going on. It can be very complicated once you get in that room, but his list of accomplishments — especially as the first Hispanic quarterback and head coach — bolster an already strong candidacy, especially with guys like George Seifert and Jimmy Johnson 2-0 in Super Bowls, too.

  5. Mike avolio
    October 20, 2015
    Reply

    Flores is one of many wronged by the voters…

    Mike Curtis
    Jerry Kramer
    Robert Brazile
    Joe Klecko
    Tommy Nobis
    Donnie Shell…
    Alex Karras …and much more…the voting process needs to get revamped

    • October 20, 2015
      Reply

      Mike, I think we’ve written about all of them … and others. There is a passel of qualified players waiting on the Hall … many of whom are seniors, as you have noted. One reason we didn’t like the senior pool reduced from two to one candidate for every other year for the next four years.

  6. Miguel
    October 20, 2015
    Reply

    As a Hispanic who many view in a negative light now a days because of this whole immigration thing. Tom Flores is the one bright light for the Latino Committee. I think what really upsets me as a fan though is that he was truly the first Minority Head Coach to win not only one but two Superbowls. If that is not ground breaking enough then what the hell is, The man has 4 Superbowls. Its sad to see this great man be snuffed for the hall of fame. There are players and coaches who i see get into the Hall of Fame and wonder how in the world isn’t Tom Flores in but these guys are. I think I’m just really bothered because we made a big deal when Tony Dungy won the Superbowl and every one falsely called him the first minority head coach to win a Superbowl, when the reality is he technically is the second. Tom Flores coached a team to the Superbowl and won 2 times that with in itself we should look at as a great accomplishment for minorities in the 80’s. So when ever i hear someone say Tony Dungy was the first minority head coach i am bothered because people forget to honor the truly first minority that won it all and that was Mr. Tom Flores.

    Hall of Fame Voters please come to your senses and put Tom Flores in the Pro Football Hall of Fame where he rightfully belongs..

    • October 20, 2015
      Reply

      Miguel, thanks for the note. Trust me, all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact. Now we have to convince others. Thanks again for the interest.

  7. Sports Fan
    October 21, 2015
    Reply

    Mr. Clark Judge
    Mr. Ron Borges
    Mr. Rick Gosselin
    =
    Your Shows/Website are OUTSTANDING!

    Questions/Comments:

    RE: “…where other programs call their analysts “insiders,” our guys ARE insiders. Because they’re on the “inside” … The idea is to educate the listener … These hosts can do what no else has: they pull back the curtain on a process that is secretive and often misunderstood…”

    RE: “…Trust me, all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact. Now we have to convince others…”

    1. He is days away from the November vote

    2. What is the absolute very latest Fans can submit information to the PFHOF to be disseminated to all 46 Selectors/Voters for the upcoming November vote?

    3. Do they actually provide it to each Selector/Voter?

    4. Do Selectors/Voters actually read what persons provide?

    5. “all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact”, as you noted, how many of the Selectors/Voters are as aware as you three (3) are?

    6. “Now we have to convince others”, as you noted, can you please elaborate on that?

    7. In 28 years and counting Coach Flores has never made it to the Semi-Finalist Ballot Nominee stage in the process, what exactly can be done to get that changed, please elaborate?
    – What can be done by Selectors/Voters?
    – What can be done by Fans?
    The more detail the better
    =
    8. The three (3) Coaches who were Finalists last year, (who are deserving) does it matter that he’s been waiting longer and has been eligible longer then two (2) of the three (3) Coaches?

    9. “convince others”, as you noted, could the three (3) of you write a compelling State Your Case and get it into mainstream print media & also social media & to all of your fellow Selectors/Voters too?

    10. The two (2) links provided in an earlier comment in this section
    Link 1: FLORES FACTS RAW RESUME
    &
    Link 2: Sports/Military Historian Dr. Mario Longoria’s BRIEF
    Please make sure your fellow Selectors/Voters get both of those links

    11. In addition to those links:
    On your Website you have at least three (3) sections with a story about Coach Flores:
    – State Your Case: Tom Flores
    – First woman, first Hispanic talk coaching and trailblazing in NFL
    – Flores on failure to reach Canton: “Confusing and frustrating”
    You provide Excellent articles/audio in each of those sections
    &
    Each of of those sections have comments from readers and provide copies of articles and excellent links as well
    Please make sure your fellow Selectors/Voters read those sections on your Website

    12. If it is easier for you to discuss your responses and have one person respond that might be helpful, I look forward to your response

    Again:
    “…Trust me, all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact. Now we have to convince others…”, that is GREAT!
    thank you

    #46FORFLORES

  8. Sports Fan
    October 21, 2015
    Reply

    (as noted in the previous comment)

    Re: LINK 1:

    1 – http://pfhof.blogspot.com/

    FLORES FACTS RAW RESUME:

    For all 46 PFHOF Selectors/Voters

    Link contains as many facts as possible

    Short of reading each one of the books on Tom Flores, the information in Link 1 is the most comprehensive compilation of raw facts to help each Selector/Voter see him in his totality

    If I left out anything please let me know?

    Please make sure your fellow Selectors/Voters get both of these links

    #46FORFLORES

  9. Sports Fan
    October 21, 2015
    Reply

    Re: LINK 2:

    2 – http://thebrief1.blogspot.com

    The BRIEF:

    For all 46 PFHOF Selectors/Voters

    Historian Dr. Mario Longoria has been working on the “BRIEF” for many years now.

    He is the Expert on Latina/o, Mexican American, Chicana/o, Hispanic Athletes

    Within the BRIEF it contains the links where as an Historian his past work can be read at the PFHOF Website

    This means even the PFHOF recognizes his expertise, I advised him he’s “an Expert Witness regarding history”

    When I reached out to Dr. Longoria in January he told me he had been working on information about Coach Flores for years, we discussed the possibilities of him putting a story/article together, months later he completed the BRIEF, it is a MUST READ, both links are

    Please make sure your fellow Selectors/Voters get both of these links
    Thank you

    #46FORFLORES

  10. Sports Fan
    November 1, 2015
    Reply

    LINK: A MUST READ

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brent-a-wilkes/lulac-hails-nomination-of_b_8423894.html
    =
    Ron Borges
    Rick Gosselin
    Clark Judge
    Talk Of Fame Sports Network
    =
    Please make sure ALL PFHOF Selectors receive this Web Link along with the information in this post.
    And all posts regarding Tom Flores on your Website
    =
    Greetings!

    OUTSTANDING Shows/Website!
    =

    =
    LULAC: 150,000+ – “ALL FOR ONE, ONE FOR ALL”
    =
    Coaches Tom Flores & Pete Rodriquez

    =
    #46FORFLORES

    #46FORPETE
    =
    PFHOF/NFL CANNOT write the history of the AFL/NFL without Tom Flores
    =
    Thank you….
    PASS IT ON

  11. Sports Fan
    November 24, 2015
    Reply

    Sports Fan
    Questions from October 21, 2015
    =
    Mr. Clark Judge
    Mr. Ron Borges
    Mr. Rick Gosselin
    =
    Your Shows/Website are OUTSTANDING!

    Questions/Comments:

    RE: “…where other programs call their analysts “insiders,” our guys ARE insiders. Because they’re on the “inside” … The idea is to educate the listener … These hosts can do what no else has: they pull back the curtain on a process that is secretive and often misunderstood…”

    RE: “…Trust me, all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact. Now we have to convince others…”

    1. He is days away from the November vote

    2. What is the absolute very latest Fans can submit information to the PFHOF to be disseminated to all 46 Selectors/Voters for the upcoming November vote?

    3. Do they actually provide it to each Selector/Voter?

    4. Do Selectors/Voters actually read what persons provide?

    5. “all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact”, as you noted, how many of the Selectors/Voters are as aware as you three (3) are?

    6. “Now we have to convince others”, as you noted, can you please elaborate on that?

    7. In 28 years and counting Coach Flores has never made it to the Semi-Finalist Ballot Nominee stage in the process, what exactly can be done to get that changed, please elaborate?
    – What can be done by Selectors/Voters?
    – What can be done by Fans?
    The more detail the better
    =
    8. The three (3) Coaches who were Finalists last year, (who are deserving) does it matter that he’s been waiting longer and has been eligible longer then two (2) of the three (3) Coaches?

    9. “convince others”, as you noted, could the three (3) of you write a compelling State Your Case and get it into mainstream print media & also social media & to all of your fellow Selectors/Voters too?

    10. The two (2) links provided in an earlier comment in this section
    Link 1: FLORES FACTS RAW RESUME
    &
    Link 2: Sports/Military Historian Dr. Mario Longoria’s BRIEF
    Please make sure your fellow Selectors/Voters get both of those links

    11. In addition to those links:
    On your Website you have at least three (3) sections with a story about Coach Flores:
    – State Your Case: Tom Flores
    – First woman, first Hispanic talk coaching and trailblazing in NFL
    – Flores on failure to reach Canton: “Confusing and frustrating”
    You provide Excellent articles/audio in each of those sections
    &
    Each of of those sections have comments from readers and provide copies of articles and excellent links as well
    Please make sure your fellow Selectors/Voters read those sections on your Website

    12. If it is easier for you to discuss your responses and have one person respond that might be helpful, I look forward to your response

    Again:
    “…Trust me, all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact. Now we have to convince others…”, that is GREAT!
    thank you

    #46FORFLORES

  12. Sports Fan
    February 2, 2016
    Reply

    ATTN: 46 PFHOF Selectors/Voters
    PFHOF
    NFL
    Ron Borges
    Rick Gosselin
    Clark Judge
    Talk Of Fame Sports Network

    MUST READ for ALL Selectors/Voters – NFL – PFHOF
    =
    SUPER BOWL 50 Media Day

    Coach Ron Rivera thoughts on the #PFHOF

    Paul Gutierrez
    ESPN Staff Writer
    Should two-time Super Bowl champion coach Tom Flores be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame?

    “Oh yeah. I think if you coach this game and you have the success that he’s had, he should get that opportunity. He should.” – Panthers coach Ron Rivera, when I asked him about the former Raiders coach, whom he referred to as a “pioneer” in the game.

  13. Sports Fan
    August 2, 2017
    Reply

    NFL Network Rich Eisen Go to his link & VOTE – Tom Flores
    PASS IT ON!

    Use ALL forms of Social Media

    Twitter Tweet link:

    https://twitter.com/RichEisenShow/status/892415507348856832

  14. Sports Fan
    October 21, 2017
    Reply

    Questions from
    – November 24, 2015
    – October 21, 2015

    I even reminded you from other posts I was waiting to hear back from you on these Questions/Comments below

    I’m reposting them since you all never responded

    Is it easier for you to email me a response?

    These question are more important now then they were when I first asked

    Tom Flores will turn 81 yrs old for the PFHOF 2018 Class

    Reread post above from “Miguel” 10/20/15 & then your response to him

    =
    Mr. Clark Judge – Here Come The Judge
    Mr. Ron Borges – Bogus or Borges
    Mr. Rick Gosselin – Dr. Data
    TOF
    =
    Your Shows/Website are OUTSTANDING!

    Questions/Comments:

    RE: “…where other programs call their analysts “insiders,” our guys ARE insiders. Because they’re on the “inside” … The idea is to educate the listener … These hosts can do what no else has: they pull back the curtain on a process that is secretive and often misunderstood…”

    RE: “…Trust me, all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact. Now we have to convince others…”

    1. He is days away from the November vote

    2. What is the absolute very latest Fans can submit information to the PFHOF to be disseminated to all 46 (48) Selectors/Voters for the upcoming November vote?

    3. Do they actually provide it to each Selector/Voter?

    4. Do Selectors/Voters actually read what persons provide?

    5. “all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact”, as you noted, how many of the Selectors/Voters are as aware as you three (3) are?

    6. “Now we have to convince others”, as you noted, can you please elaborate on that?

    7. In 28 (30) years and counting Coach Flores has never made it to the Semi-Finalist Ballot Nominee stage in the process, what exactly can be done to get that changed, please elaborate?
    – What can be done by Selectors/Voters?
    – What can be done by Fans?
    The more detail the better
    =
    8. The three (3) Coaches who were Finalists last year, (who are deserving) does it matter that he’s been waiting longer and has been eligible longer then two (2) of the three (3) Coaches?

    9. “convince others”, as you noted, could the three (3) of you write a compelling State Your Case and get it into mainstream print media & also social media & to all of your fellow Selectors/Voters too?

    10. The two (2) links provided in an earlier comment in this section
    Link 1: FLORES FACTS RAW RESUME
    &
    Link 2: Sports/Military Historian Dr. Mario Longoria’s BRIEF
    Please make sure your fellow Selectors/Voters get both of those links

    11. In addition to those links:
    On your Website you have at least three (3) sections with a story about Coach Flores:
    – State Your Case: Tom Flores
    – First woman, first Hispanic talk coaching and trailblazing in NFL
    – Flores on failure to reach Canton: “Confusing and frustrating”
    You provide Excellent articles/audio in each of those sections
    &
    Each of of those sections have comments from readers and provide copies of articles and excellent links as well
    Please make sure your fellow Selectors/Voters read those sections on your Website

    12. If it is easier for you to discuss your responses and have one person respond that might be helpful, I look forward to your response

    Again:
    “…Trust me, all three of us are aware of Tom’s impact. Now we have to convince others…”, that is GREAT!
    thank you

    #46FORFLORES

    now
    #48FORFLORES

    • October 21, 2017
      Reply

      I don’t know where to start but I will tell you that we submit our votes for semifinalists by the end of the month. That is done individually. There is no meeting of voters. Fans can submit what they want but voters tend to read recommendations submitted by former coaches, GMs, owners and players … essentially anyone in or around the game who knew the guy. We have discussed Flores with other voters, but we cannot influence their vote other than saying we think he belongs in the discussion. You ask if voters are aware of Flores’ credentials? Yes, they are. But, like others, he’s been pushed aside … probably because of what happened in Seattle … and all but forgotten. Does it matter that he’s been waiting longer than any of the coaches who were semifinalists last year? No. And that’s not saying it’s right. We often push for guys who have been waiting longest to get to the head of the line … if, in fact, they’re qualified … but that too often falls on deaf ears. Example: The outcry over Terrell Owens. What about someone like, say, oh, Drew Pearson, who, unlike Owens, was first-team all-decade and played on a Super Bowl winner. Nobody talks about him and he’s never been discussed. How about Cliff Branch? Or Sterling Sharpe? Or Charlie Hennigan? Let’s go back farther to Billy Howton, who led the league in career catches and yards receiving when he retired … and who broke HOFer Don Hutson’s records in GB. Never been discussed, and, guaranteed, never will be. Or my favorite: Mac Speedie. Played seven years. All-Pro six of them. Went to seven championship games. Won four of them. Goes to Canada and wins championship there. What more does the guy need to do? He’s been retired over six decades, yet people want to get Terrell Owens in now. So there’s your answer.

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