State Your Case: Why Cookie Gilchrist is worthy of HOF consideration


Cookie Gilchrist trading card courtesy of Topps

They call it the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

But it’s not. It’s the NFL Hall of Fame.

For Canton to be the Pro Football Hall of Fame, all forms of gridiron achievement would need to be recognized. Miller Farr’s six interceptions in the World Football League would count toward his Hall-of-Fame candidacy. Herschel Walker’s 5,562 rushing yards in the USFL would count toward his candidacy. Doug Flutie’s 41,355 passing yards in the CFL would count toward his candidacy.

But they do not.

If the Pro Football Hall of Fame was indeed all inclusive, Cookie Gilchrist would already have a bust in Canton. Gilchrist played the first six seasons of his professional career in Canada and his final six seasons in the AFL.

How talented was Cookie? Hall-of-Fame coach Paul Brown of the Cleveland Browns tried to sign him in 1954 when he was still in high school. But the NFL overruled the contract, so Gilchrist moved north to play his football in Canada. Three years later, the Browns drafted Jim Brown, who is considered the greatest player in NFL history.

“I told Jim Brown to his face that if I had stayed with the Browns,” Gilchrist once said, “nobody would have heard of him.”

Gilchrist made the All-CFL team in each of his first five seasons as a professional. He rushed for a team-leading 958 yards and seven touchdowns for the Grey Cup champion Hamilton Tiger-Cats in 1957 and also intercepted three passes as a linebacker on defense, returning two of them for scores.

In 1958, after his trade to Saskatchewan, Gilchrist finished as the CFL rushing runnerup with 1,254 yards. In 1959, after his trade to Toronto, he added the placekicking chores to his workload. Gilchrist scored 73 points that season on five touchdowns, nine field goals and 16 conversion kicks – and also intercepted a career-best four passes that season. All this in a three-down league, not like the four-down game played in the NFL.

In 1960, Gilchrist scored 100 points on seven touchdowns, five field goals and 43 conversions. He also caught a career-high 25 passes and finished as the runnerup for CFL MVP. He made the All-CFL team that season on both sides of the ball, at fullback on offense and linebacker on defense.

Gilchrist moved back south of the border to the Buffalo Bills in 1962. He promptly became the first AFL player ever to rush for 1,000 yards in a season, leading the league with his 1,096 yards, averaging a Jim Brown-like 5.1 yards per carry. He scored 13 touchdowns on the ground and two more through the air. That earned Gilchrist AFL MVP honors and the first of his four consecutive AFL All-Star Game invites.

Gilchrist rushed for a league-leading 14 touchdowns in 1963, then led the AFL in rushing again with 981 yards in 1964. He capped his season with a 122-yard rushing effort in a 20-7 victory over San Diego that gave the Bills their first AFL championship.

But his journeys continued. The Bills traded Gilchrist to the Broncos in 1965, then he moved on to the first-year Miami Dolphins in 1966, then back to the Broncos in 1967.

Gilchrist was a civil rights advocate 50 years before Colin Kaepernick. He led a boycott at the 1965 AFL All-Star Game, forcing the contest to be moved from New Orleans to Houston because New Orleans wanted to segregate the black players from the white ones in hotels. Gilchrist also was voted to the CFL Hall of Fame but turned down the honor, citing “racism and exploitation by management.”

On the field, Gilchrist was a freak of nature – a 6-1, 251-pound package of power and speed who was bigger than the defensive linemen and linebackers of his day. He set a pro football record with 243 yards rushing in a game against the New York Jets in 1963 – a record that stood for eight years before Willie Ellison of the Rams rushed for 247 yards in a 1971 NFL game against the New Orleans Saints. Gilchrist was voted to the all-time All-AFL team.

In his 12 year career over two leagues and six cities, Gilchrist rushed for 9,204 yards, caught 196 passes and scored 76 touchdowns. He also kicked 19 field goals and intercepted 12 passes.

Gilchrist passed away in 2011 at the age of 75. The Bills will enshrine him posthumously into their Wall of Honor on Oct. 29 during halftime ceremonies of a game against the Oakland Raiders. His talent and career are both worthy of a look from Canton.

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73 Comments

  1. Rasputin
    October 17, 2017
    Reply

    I’m sorry, did you just call Colin Kaepernick a “civil rights advocate”? Being a racial militant vaguely crying “oppression” doesn’t automatically make one a champion of civil rights. Kaepernick infamously heaped praise on Fidel Castro’s regime, a communist government where civil rights were nonexistent, especially due process. Kangaroo tribunals and summary executions were employed instead. Kaepernick would struggle to define the term “civil rights” if asked. Don’t denigrate true civil rights advocates by lumping him in with them.

    • Joseph Wright
      October 17, 2017
      Reply

      Oh, and a “freedom genius” like you could easily define the term “civil rights.” You’d be ripping Gilchrist just as badly as you’ve ripped Kaepernick, Jim Brown, and Kenny Easley if you had full knowledge of him. You have yet to give credit to ANY NFL Black head coach or quarterback, Razzie (BTW, someone other than Dak Prescott, Cowboy homer) . No wonder you, and not me, has had comments deleted from this site for your thinly veiled racist and bigoted rants.

      • Rasputin
        October 17, 2017
        Reply

        Why, did Gilchrist praise totalitarian societies with no civil rights too? The boycott he led was against REAL racial discrimination, New Orleans wanting to segregate players at hotels, so in that regard at least he sounds like my kind of guy.

        You’re really butthurt to keep following me around lying like this, Joseph Wright. You never have posted a single bigoted sentence I’ve ever written, but if you want I could repost some of your racially bigoted comments as I did on that previous thread.

        • Rasputin
          October 17, 2017
          Reply

          Oh and it’s funny that you shove “Jim Brown” in there since a few weeks ago I extensively quoted him criticizing the anti-American protests. Don’t pretend that all those guys you listed are the same in every way.

          • Joseph Wright
            October 17, 2017

            You have criticized Jim Brown extensively on his social activism. Now you are hypocritically “embracing” him with selective “cherry-picking.” When Kaepernick first brought this to everyone’s attention, Brown said, “”He’s within his rights and he’s telling the truth as he sees it,” Brown said. “I am with him 100 percent.” See http://abc7.com/sports/jim-brown-on-colin-kaepernick-i-am-with-him-100-percent/1491148/.

            So given the crickets you allow to chirp around you, let me say it on your behalf: Everyone, the racist troll known on this site as “Rasputin” FULLY believes there have NEVER been ANY quality Black head coaches or quarterbacks EVER in the National Football League. Giving credit to Dak Prescott is a cop-out because Razzie is a Cowboys homer. Although, Rasputin was obviously disturbed by the color of Randall Cunningham’s skin when he played for Dallas. The same Randall Cunningham that has a higher career passer rating than John Elway and a winning record vs. Elway, Troy Aikman and Brett Favre. And Rasputin will NEVER explain why Warren Moon went undrafted and had to play in Canada for six years.

          • Rasputin
            October 17, 2017

            Well that’s a lie. I had a poster of Warren Moon on my wall growing up, lol, and always thought he should be a first ballot HoFer. I supported Dungy’s HoF candidacy including I think on this very site. I also explicitly PRAISED Cunningham’s performance for Dallas during a hard time for the franchise. I’ve never said anything derogatory about “black” QBs or coaches and you’ve failed to quote a single bigoted sentence I’ve ever written because I’m not and have never been a racial bigot.

            And I never denied criticizing Brown for some things. He’s done some really stupid stuff in the past, like disrespecting Franco Harris by boasting that he could beat the guy in a race (that televised stunt didn’t turn out well for Brown). I’ve praised him for other things. Here’s what Brown said a few weeks ago on the anthem protests (from various news outlets):

            “I’m going to give you the real deal: I’m an American,” Brown said. “I don’t desecrate my flag and my national anthem. I’m not gonna do anything against the flag and national anthem. I’m going to work within those situations. But this is my country, and I’ll work out the problems, but I’ll do it in an intelligent manner.”…

            “If you have a cause, I think you should organize it, present it in a manner where it’s not only you standing or sitting on one knee, but a lot of people that is gonna get behind each other and do something about it,” Brown said. “If I ask you one question: Who is Colin calling on to follow what he’s talking about?”….

            “Colin has to make up his mind whether he’s truly an activist or he’s a football player,” Brown said. “Football is commercial. You have owners. You have fans. And you want to honor that if you’re making that kind of money…”

            Brown added: “You have to understand there’s intelligence that’s involved, OK? I can’t be two things at once that contradict each other. If I sign for money, then the people I sign with, they have rules and regulations.”

            Brown also apparently met with Browns players after their initial flop of a protest blew up in their faces and the next game they were all standing for the anthem.

          • Joseph Wright
            October 17, 2017

            Let’s see, March 22, 2017…”Jim Brown was a great player but, in addition to being a moron and screwing up careers like Duane Thomas’ …It’s disgusting that the media keeps legitimizing this guy by trotting him out from time to time to discuss political/racial/social issues as if he’s some sage.” And NOW, we are supposed to believe Jim Brown is your guy? GTFOH!
            “LOL! You’re basing your libel that Zimmerman is a “racist” on him arguing that Randall Cunningham should maybe be converted to a skill position player?!?! That’s still a defensible position TODAY.” Well, well, well. Rasputin defends the Confederates and now he defends the bigoted notion that a Black QB who is a talented passer should be shifted to another position. Sounds like a liar and racist bigot ( “I also explicitly PRAISED Cunningham’s performance for Dallas during a hard time for the franchise. I’ve never said anything derogatory about “black” QBs or coaches and you’ve failed to quote a single bigoted sentence I’ve ever written because I’m not and have never been a racial bigot”) to me. “Cunningham was a good QB, if you count his running ability, but he wasn’t great. Romo was great. ” This is explicit PRAISE? Just for the record: Tony Romo was NEVER a great quarterback. Cunningham was far better.
            “Cunningham had it easy.” Yep, Razzie. That ranks right up there with Mike Ditka’s “No oppression in the last 100 years” rant.
            “Remember I called him (Cunningham) a “good” QB. I just pointed out that it’s not an insane argument to make, especially when he was first coming into the league.” He only came into the league as one of only three QBs in college football history to pass for 2,500 yards three consecutive seasons (at least up to that time in history as more have probably followed; at the time the others were John Elway and Doug Flutie). But he’s singled out by Zimmerman and other bigots to be shifted from the QB position. But, to Razzie, that’s “defensible.” Amazing. Way to PRAISE a guy.
            Would LOVE to hear your explanation on why your new poster boy (after all these posts he NOW says he liked Warren Moon–yeah, right) went undrafted and had to play in Canada for six years.
            “I’ll point out that the guy (Doug Williams) is only somewhat famous outside of racial chauvinist circles because he had one great quarter in the Super Bowl. As a backup Williams only started 2 games in that 1987 regular season you’re feebly trying to brag about.” He also relieved Schroeder in three other games and led them on a Super Bowl run. Would Schroeder have done that in ’87. Later, bigot.

          • Rasputin
            October 17, 2017

            While you can’t post a single racially bigoted quote I’ve ever written, here’s a small sample of your racially bigoted quotes, Joseph Wright, from the Lee Roy Jordan article where you expressed your feeling that safeties like Larry Wilson and Cliff Harris don’t belong in the HoF because they’re white.

            “Harris was a White man and, when it came time to defend Lynn Swann, he couldn’t jump. No racism, just stating the truth.” – Joseph Wright

            “players like Harris, Larry Wilson, Dick Anderson, Blackwood Brothers were relics from the 60s who couldn’t hold up against modern athletes” – Joseph Wright

            “It’s players like Cliff Harris, Larry Wilson, Dick Anderson and Bill Bates that USC’s Sam Cunningham exploited that gave Paul “Bear” Bryant the vision and validation (to closed-minded, in-denial Confederates) to update his talent pool. The Larry Wilsons and Cliff Harrises were out and the Tatums and Ken Houstons were in.” – Joseph Wright

            “Cliff Harris was on the track team (lol)? What’d he do? Throw the javelin? Run the mile? Poll vault? I KNOW it wasn’t the sprints or the high-jump. LMFAO!!!” – Joseph Wright (I then informed Wright that actually Harris was a sprinter in college, lol)

            “damn! Harris couldn’t run OR jump” – Joseph Wright

            That was despite me debunking your prejudiced assumptions by posting facts about Harris’ high scouting vertical and video footage of him torching most of the field in an NFL superstars race near the end of his career. Plus you apparently don’t follow the current NFL enough to have heard of guys like Eric Weddle or Harrison Smith.

            See? I can back up my statements about you, Wright. You can’t back up your lies about me. So stuff your projection.

          • Rasputin
            October 18, 2017

            Aside from the fact that you left out the parts where I go on to extensively support all those claims, which one of those quotes is supposed to be “bigoted”? Criticizing an individual who happens to be black isn’t “racist”, nor is saying he wasn’t as good as some other player. Prejudice would be saying he wasn’t as good BECAUSE of his skin color, as you have extensively. Here’s an example of a racially bigoted quote:

            “Harris was a White man and, when it came time to defend Lynn Swann, he couldn’t jump. No racism, just stating the truth.” – Joseph Wright

            You can’t find a single quote of me saying anything like your quote above. I’ve said nothing derogatory about black people or any other race, and yet you’re still here persisting in your lies and avoiding addressing your own, actual bigoted comments in cowardly fashion. Pathetic.

            Regarding your quotes:

            – The Doug Williams comment was in response to you insanely claiming that Williams was better than HoFer Sonny Jurgensen. In fact you insisted that Williams was so manifestly better that PAUL ZIMMERMAN was a “racist” for saying otherwise in his 1980s versus 1970s QBs piece done in the late 1980s. You also posted a bunch of crap indicating that you liked how Williams allegedly threw the term “redneck” around to insult white people. I don’t know how much if any Williams would agree with your warped little worldview, but you clearly see him as some sort of champion (and I’m not talking Super Bowl).

            Career Stats
            Doug Williams – 49.5% completion, 6.8 y/a, 16,998 yards, 69.4 passer rating, 0 Pro Bowls, never led the league in yards

            Sonny Jurgensen – 57.1% completion, 7.6 y/a, 32,224 yards, 82.6 passer rating, 5 Pro Bowls, led the league in yards 5 years

            Not even close. That’s despite Jurgensen playing in a far less stat inflated era. The champion Redskins certainly gave Williams a chance, making him the starter in 1988, while the old starter Schroeder who had gotten injured left for the Raiders. Even Schroeder posted better career stats than Williams:

            Jay Schroeder – 50.8% completion, 7.1 y/a, 20,063 yards, 71.7 passer rating, 1 Pro Bowl

            None of this has anything to do with the skin colors involved. It’s just a comparison of individuals. You’re the one viewing everything through a racial prism. And I’m not trying to run Williams down. He did an awesome thing most players never get to. I’m blasting your insipid argument. Only a mindless racial bigot like you would even challenge Zimmerman’s (or my) assessment there, let alone stupidly assert that it proves him (or me) “racist”.

            – On Jim Brown, I just got done saying I’ve criticized him in the past and rightly so. I even gave a specific example of his stupidity higher on this thread. I never said he’s “my guy” (whatever that means). I just chastised you for lumping him in with Kaepernick and others as though there are no nuanced differences between them. I already posted a huge quote from Brown opposing the anthem protests and thoughtfully taking Kaepernick to task to prove that. Maybe Brown has gotten smarter as he’s aged. It happens sometimes. You have no point here.

            – You keep obsessing over “Confederates”. I didn’t “defend the Confederates”. The only time I even mentioned the Civil War was after you did when you were touting your supposed historical knowledge and claimed the Civil War was a one sided affair like the particular NFL game you were comparing it to (you also blamed Dallas for JFK being assassinated). All I did was post the casualty figures for each side to show how stupid your cakewalk analogy was. I was highlighting your historical ignorance and would have done the same if you had claimed the Romans had easily rolled over the Carthaginians in the Second Punic War (look it up, moron).

            – On Randall Cunningham, you omitted where I said I WOULDN’T have made him a skill position position player. But it wasn’t any more insane or “racist” to suggest otherwise than people saying Johnny Manziel should convert to WR. Paul Zimmerman didn’t say that until 1987, after Cunningham had played two pretty bad seasons at NFL QB, during which he had completed 50% of his passes for 9 TDs, 15 INTs, and a miserable 60.0 passer rating. But he was the second leading rusher on the team in 1986 with 540 rushing yards, averaging 8.2 y/c on 66 attempts. It was a very defensible comment. If anything Zimmerman was trying to keep the guy in the league. And after Cunningham turned things around Zimmerman was quick to recognize that, calling him a “budding star” in 1988 (YOU accidentally linked to that article, lol; unlike you I read all of it). I appreciate you confirming what I said about having called him a “good” QB though.

            You toss around the “racist” accusation like a kid on a sugar high fires a water pistol.

            – Joseph Wright: “Tony Romo was NEVER a great quarterback. Cunningham was far better.”

            Cunningham retired ranking 20th in passer rating, 47th in completion percentage, and tied for 60th in yards/attempt (that’s his own era and earlier). Romo still ranks 4th in passer rating, 5th in completion percentage, and 5th in yards/attempt despite playing with a crap offensive line for much of his career and never having a great defense like Cunningham enjoyed in his prime. Heck, Cunningham never even ranked in the top 5 in completion percentage. Romo made Laurent Robinson famous with 11 TD catches in his only season at Dallas (he combined for 4 the rest of his career).

            LOL!

            Cunningham was a good QB if you count his running ability, but he wasn’t great. Romo was great.

            – There’s nothing “new” about me being a Warren Moon fan. The Houston Oilers were my second favorite team.

            Joseph Wright, you’re projecting your own racial bigotry onto others. Do yourself a favor and give it a rest.

          • Joseph Wright
            October 18, 2017

            “Cunningham retired ranking 20th in passer rating, 47th in completion percentage, and tied for 60th in yards/attempt (that’s his own era and earlier). Romo still ranks 4th in passer rating, 5th in completion percentage, and 5th in yards/attempt despite playing with a crap offensive line for much of his career and never having a great defense like Cunningham enjoyed in his prime. Heck, Cunningham never even ranked in the top 5 in completion percentage.” And RC had a good OL in Philly? Romo’s passing statistics are inflated because he played in an era that has basically shackled defenders in pass coverage. It’s ridiculous that a guy like him completed 60+ percent of his passes every season. Put him in the late 80s and he’s a cross between Bubby Brister and David Woodley. Contrast his four Pro Bowls with RC’s. RC was a starter three times; Romo made it as a starter only in his fourth Pro Bowl, largely no doubt, because Goodell let former Cowboy Michael Irvin pick the teams.
            Cunningham split the league MVP polls in 1988, 1990, and 1998. He was AP 1st team All-Pro in 1998. He led the league in passing in ’98. RC is one of only three players to win the Bert Bell award three times (the other two: Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning). How “bad” of a passer could RC have been if 1) He completed 56.6 for his career 2) passed for more TDs than INTs for his career (+70)? Tony Romo never was held in that high esteem–EVER. And you say Z’s bigoted, racist suggestion was “trying to keep him in the league?” Randall Cunningham was not worthy of being in the NFL? What about Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, or Young? Did they need someone to keep them in the league? RC’s stats after two years were no worse and in some cases better than theirs after they had completed two years in the NFL. Z and you singled him out because he’s Black.

            Zimmerman and your bigotry would not allow you to admit Doug Williams was far better in ’87 than Jurgensen was in ’73. Given your further ramblings on this specific subject, I suppose you believe that Jay Schroeder was better than Williams. You really believe Schroeder could have taken Washington to the top in ’87? Please. Romo played behind a crap OL? Name me some quality OLs from the Tampa Bay Bucs when Williams was there. Quite often, he threw several passes away to avoid the sack and save the Bucs field position. That will lower any QB’s percentage. If you are going to say Steve Young’s stats were dragged down by playing with the Bucs why don’t you afford Doug Williams that same courtesy? And as for him rightfully (as I do with you) calling Bucs owner Hugh Culverhouse a redneck, was he wrong? The guy made Williams the 54th highest paid QB in a league with 28 starters. Virtually every BACKUP is making more than him. And then after Williams led Tampa to its greatest success to that point (two divisional titles; three winning seasons; three playoff berths), he lets him go rather than give him a raise after his contract expires. Tampa Bay disappears from the playoffs for 14 straight years. You think that’s a coincidence? Oh, yeah, redneck Razzie, I can see it now on your next post: “I always said the Bucs should have signed Doug Williams.” Yeah, right. Just like you’ve always had the poster of Warren Moon. SURE. Oh, BTW, still waiting to see your wonderful explanation of why Warren Moon (senior year: PAC-8 Player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) was undrafted out of U. of Washington and had to leave the country and play in Canada for six years.

            “Here’s an example of a racially bigoted quote:

            ‘Harris was a White man and, when it came time to defend Lynn Swann, he couldn’t jump. No racism, just stating the truth.’ – Joseph Wright”
            Proper context needed: I simply was adding some humor (something “Rasputin”–whatever–lacks) with a reference to the Wesley Snipes/Woody Harrelson movie “White Men Can’t Jump.” Dude went overboard, claiming to be offended. What he doesn’t show you readers is that I also pointed out that Rocky Bleier and Dwight Clark (and, of course, many others) dispelled the humorous myth while sorry-ass Cliff Harris could not. Last I checked, White Men Can’t Jump was a box-office hit and a critically acclaimed movie that was not banned or pulled from the theaters. Were you that lone, dumbass picketer in front of the theater in 1992, Razzie? LMFAO!!!

          • Rasputin
            October 18, 2017

            Me: “Cunningham retired ranking 20th in passer rating, 47th in completion percentage, and tied for 60th in yards/attempt (that’s his own era and earlier). Romo still ranks 4th in passer rating, 5th in completion percentage, and 5th in yards/attempt despite playing with a crap offensive line for much of his career and never having a great defense like Cunningham enjoyed in his prime. Heck, Cunningham never even ranked in the top 5 in completion percentage.”

            Joseph Wright: “Romo’s passing statistics are inflated because he played in an era that has basically shackled defenders in pass coverage. It’s ridiculous that a guy like him completed 60+ percent of his passes every season. Put him in the late 80s and he’s a cross between Bubby Brister and David Woodley.”

            …wow….Did you not even read what you quoted me saying, little Joey? I posted each QB’s rankings at the time of their retirement (even a little later in Romo’s case), not raw numbers. I was only comparing Cunningham to people who played in his era and before, and he didn’t come close to measuring up to what Romo did compared to his own peers. The undeniable idiocy of your response just underscores that you have no credibility whatsoever.

            Romo should have gone to at least 5 Pro Bowls, as he was passed over in 2011 despite posting a 102.5 rating. He also threw 248 TDs to only 117 interceptions, more than 2.1 TDs for each interception, so I’m not sure why you were trying to knock his TD/INT ratio.

            Joseph Wright: “And you say Z’s bigoted, racist suggestion was “trying to keep him in the league?” Randall Cunningham was not worthy of being in the NFL? What about Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, or Young? Did they need someone to keep them in the league? RC’s stats after two years were no worse and in some cases better than theirs after they had completed two years in the NFL. Z and you singled him out because he’s Black.”

            …sigh…I didn’t single out anyone and am only talking about this because you raised the issue. It’s incredible that you bring up 1970s/60s QBs to compare to a guy who played into the 21st Century after your projection filled lecture on how passing stats from different eras aren’t directly comparable, and you’re completely wrong anyway. Lets look at facts. After two years:

            Randall Cunningham (1985, 86) – 60.4 rating, 50% completion, 1,939 yards, 9 TDs, 15 INTs

            Frank Tarkenton (1961, 62) – 70.4 rating, 52.5% completion, 4,592 yards, 40 TDs, 42 INTs

            John Elway (1983, 84) – 67.9 rating, 52.7% completion, 4,261 yards, 25 TDs, 29 INTs

            Steve Young (1985, 85) – 63.1 rating, 53.3% completion, 3,217 yards, 11 TDs, 21 INTS

            Roger Staubach, drafted in the 10th round due to his impending military service, only played sparingly behind Craig Morton when he returned. The Heisman winner didn’t get to contest for the starting job until 1971. That year Staubach posted a 104.8 passer rating, 59.7% completion, 15 TDs to 4 INTs, and led his team to a Super Bowl win.

            For perspective, in 1971 when Staubach had that 104.8 season rating the average NFL passer rating was only 59.3. When Cunningham posted a 29.8 rating for his rookie season of 1985 the NFL average was up to 70.7. Even Cunningham’s 83 rating in his breakout third season of 1987 wasn’t that much higher than the league average of 72.6.

            As for their overall careers, let’s get real:

            Career Passer Rating Rank At Retirement

            Roger Staubach – #1
            Steve Young – #1
            Tony Romo – #4
            Fran Tarkenton – #7
            Bob Griese – #12
            Randall Cunningham – #20

            Career Completion Percentage Rank At Retirement

            Steve Young – #1
            Roger Staubach – #5
            Tony Romo – #5
            Fran Tarkenton – #5
            Bob Griese – #11
            Randall Cunningham – #47

            I threw in Griese because I remember how much disdain you have for him, lol. So no, Cunningham wasn’t as good as any of those QBs you mentioned starting out or overall. He did finish with a slightly higher passer rating than Elway thanks to a boost in the late 90s, but then Elway was never celebrated as an efficiency guy. His claim to fame is passing volume, with 51,475 yards to Cunningham’s 29,979, and of course 2 Super Bowl wins. What’s telling is that Cunningham didn’t pass Elway in rating until 1998, John’s last year, and that Elway still finished with a higher completion percentage than Cunningham, despite not having a great completion percentage himself. Elway also had more yards/attempt.

            Conversely, let’s look at their rushing yards early on to see why Zimmerman might have viewed that as Cunningham’s strong point.

            Rushing Yards Through First Two Years

            Randall Cunningham – 745
            John Elway – 383
            Frank Tarkenton – 669
            Steve Young – 658
            Roger Staubach – 281

            Remember that Elway, Tarkenton, and Young were all full time starters. In 1971 Staubach rushed for 343 yards. Also remember that people were saying Johnny Manziel should switch to WR before he ever played a down in the NFL, despite him being the only Sophomore Heisman winner in history and posting great college passing stats. That’s because analysts weren’t confident his game would translate well to the NFL. College and the NFL are different.

            Have you considered the possibility that maybe Zimmerman isn’t the racial bigot here, Joseph? Have you considered that maybe it’s you?

            Joseph Wright: “Zimmerman and your bigotry would not allow you to admit Doug Williams was far better in ’87 than Jurgensen was in ’73.”

            Zimmerman was comparing the QBs overall, not just one season. And you’re forgetting what even you said earlier about the folly of ignoring passing stat inflation. Jurgensen’s career stats are way better despite that. It’s not even close.

            Joseph Wright: “You really believe Schroeder could have taken Washington to the top in ’87?”

            I don’t know. He did get them to the playoffs though, going 8-2 in his 10 starts while Williams went 0-2 in the strike shortened regular season (Williams went 4-6 as a starter the following year). Schroeder also made the Pro Bowl the previous year, won 2 playoff games, and finished with better career stats than Williams as I mentioned earlier.

            So why do you assume he couldn’t have won?

            As for Williams at Tampa Bay, management kept him as the full time starter for the first five years of his career, way more than other places later did. I don’t know the details of his salary situation or if they paid him less because he was black, but one shouldn’t leap to assumptions of racial malice. In Dallas in the early 1970s Duane Thomas was upset about his pay and wondered if it was because he was black. Until he asked around and was shocked to find that even a great player like 11 time Pro Bowler Bob Lilly was only making a pittance compared to players around the league who weren’t anywhere near as good. As Bob Hayes put it, the Cowboys didn’t have a race problem. They treated everyone like they were black. Some teams are stingier and/or shrewder with money than others.

            And on the other thread I explicitly said I WASN’T offended by your racial comments, LOL! I even said I appreciated them for exposing what you are and explaining many of your otherwise inexplicable comments, like attacking the “athleticism” of players who were demonstrably great athletes. You made it clear that you were dismissing guys like Larry Wilson, Cliff Harris, and Dick Anderson because of their skin color. It wasn’t just one “joke”, but a whole slew of comments as I quoted above. Cliff Harris had a 39 inch vertical in a scouting test. That would still be good today (for comparison Darrelle Revis posted a 38 inch jump). He could jump just fine.

            I only raise this because you’re still sore over your humiliation there and you keep following me around accusing me, Paul Zimmerman, and others of “racism”, while you’re the only one here who’s actually exhibited racial bigotry. It’s funny.

          • Joseph Wright
            October 20, 2017

            “I had a poster of Warren Moon on my wall growing up, lol…” So you were a kid when you had a poster of Moon. So that’s a lie because you’ve been going on and on about how you saw this Cowboy game and that Cowboy game from the early ’70s. In addition, it’s way late in the game to try to exonerate your racism with this newfound praise of Warren Moon. So you have been lying about your age AND the Warren Moon poster. Well, well, well.

            ” I’ve never said anything derogatory about “black” QBs or coaches and you’ve failed to quote a single bigoted sentence I’ve ever written because I’m not and have never been a racial bigot”

            You have a boatload of racist, bigoted crap on Cunningham alone, topped off with the bigoted assertion that EVEN today it was “defensible” for Z to recommend a position change for Cunningham, a talented passer. This, of course, was an institutional racist practice by the NFL for decades. After that bigoted idea by Z, Cunningham went on to complete more passes and more TDs than any quarterback from ’87-’90, except Dan Marino. For four straight seasons that’s how he compared to his peers (Joe Montana, Warren Moon, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Boomer Esaison, Bernie Kosar, Jim Everett, Phil Simms) of that time until that poor offensive line got his knee blown out in the opening game of ’91. Give me one Pro Bowl OL for the Eagles during RC’s time there. You can’t. Love the way you cowardly and deceitfully just fast forwarded Staubach to his third season instead of admitting that RC was better than Roger after two years. He threw three times as many touchdowns as a part-time player and he improved from his first year to his second unlike Roger. Staubach’s third year, he was still struggling to beat out Craig Morton. Prior to RC’s third year Buddy Ryan cut Ron Jaworski outright and made Cunningham the starter. Zimmerman never, ever suggested that Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, or Young should change positions. Show me where he did.

            The “I don’t know” cop-out on the Doug Williams vs. Jay Schroeder question shows your lack of credibility and racial denial. OF COURSE they wouldn’t have won the Super Bowl in ’87 with Jay Schroeder. Williams played better than Schroeder all season. It was obvious to anyone who is not a racist.

            As for that 0-2 record of Williams in ’87, add some context going forward. In the 21-20 loss to the Falcons, Washington’s kicker missed an extra point, thus negating a 3-TD pass performance by Williams. In the 30-27 loss to the Rams, Williams drove Washington downfield for the winning touchdown, hit “Hall of Fame” WR Art Monk in the hands and the pass was dropped into the waiting arms of the Rams DB to close the came. The ‘Skins were going for the touchdown because earlier in the game an extra point was missed. He came in and relieved a faltering Schroeder three times that year, winning every time. Why did Hall of Fame Head Coach Joe Gibbs go with Williams as his starter for the ’87 playoffs if Schroeder was better than him? We’re waiting, Razzie.

            So…You have lied about your age either to deceive us into thinking you are a historian (“I’ve watched more live football–early ’70s Cowboys, The Ice Bowl–than you,” LOL!) or to unsuccessfully hide your racism and bigotry (“I had a poster of Warren Moon when I was growing up.” That doesn’t fly, redneck). You can’t be an adult in the early ’70s and a kid in the ‘mid-to-late ’80s. And you call yourself a chess player? Lol. I’d whip your ass in chess. I already have all over this site. That I have never been deleted from by the way. LOL!! LLOL!!! LMFAO!!!!

            You can’t talk about anyone’s “lack of credibility” but your own when you compare Johnny Manzel (total flop) and Randall Cunningham (4x Pro Bowler; NFL MVP; Pro Bowl MVP; First Team All-Pro QB; one of only three–Unitas,RC, Peyton Manning–Bert Bell Award Winners) in the same breath.

            One more time: We’re STILL waiting for your explanation of why your “Poster Boy (yeah, right)” Warren Moon (Senior season: PAC-8 Player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) went undrafted and had to leave this country to play in Canada for six years. Quit ducking the question, you racist coward.

          • Rasputin
            October 20, 2017

            No, I talked about watching recordings of those old games, but based my arguments on stats and facts. I was born in the late 1970s and had the Moon poster (along with some Cowboys posters) in the late 1980s/early 1990s. I certainly never made that “live football”/”ICE BOWL” statement you just made up, as anyone can verify themselves with a quick F3 search of the Lee Roy Jordan page or wherever you’re pretending it came from (you didn’t say). By definition a history guy studies things beyond his own personal experiences and usually life span.

            Also you’ve never quoted me saying anything “racist”, you pathetic liar. You’re the only one here who’s made racially bigoted statements. Those CAN be verified by any reader who wants to check the Lee Roy Jordan article.

            Resorting to making up lies about me and others to deflect from your actual racial bigotry proves you’re a coward, Joseph Wright.

            So you feel that anyone who doesn’t think Randall Cunningham was quite as good Joe Montana, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Frank Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, or the other guys you mentioned is a “racist”, even after all the hard FACTS I cited refuting you. They’re not even just wrong, they’re “racist” to you. Good luck with that, moron.

            I love how you’re still trying to compare passing stats from decades apart after admitting yourself that’s invalid earlier, especially when even those unadjusted 1960s stats mostly go against you. You’ve reached an awesome level of stupid. Clowns like you are why most people no longer take the “racist” accusation seriously. You do a disservice to those trying to combat actual racism (including yours).

            People were suggesting Johnny Manziel switch positions before he had every played a down of NFL football. Far from a “flop”, he was one of the most celebrated Heisman winning QBs of all time, and set various passing records. College is different from the pros.

            “I’d whip your ass in chess. I already have all over this site.”

            LOL! I doubt you even know how to play. You certainly couldn’t whip cream, chump. You’ve lost every debate I’ve seen you have here because you’re an irrational blowhard with a limited knowledge base who can barely read for comprehension. You get panicked and lie frequently but despite that extensive practice you’re not even good at lying. You’re too easily nailed on it.

          • Joseph Wright
            October 21, 2017

            “People were suggesting Johnny Manziel switch positions before he had every played a down of NFL football. Far from a “flop”, he was one of the most celebrated Heisman winning QBs of all time, and set various passing records. College is different from the pros.”–Rasputin

            You can’t compare Manziel to Cunningham because Manziel was a flop in the NFL. Look at the NFL accomplishments and honors. Cunningham has several, Manziel has none. Reading comprehension has never been one of your strengths. It is obvious to everyone else reading that my flop comment was referring to Manziel’s NFL career, not his college career. Although as you said, “college is different from the pros.” And, of course, Cunningham showed he had what it took to make it as an NFL QB while Manziel did not. Thanks for that assist, kid.

            “So you feel that anyone who doesn’t think Randall Cunningham was quite as good Joe Montana, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Frank Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, or the other guys you mentioned is a ‘racist,'” No, no, no. I never said that. Never even implied that. I was addressing the epic fail statement of yours saying that Tony Romo was “great” and RC was “merely good.” For four consecutive seasons, 1987-90, only one QB (Dan Marino) completed more passes and TD passes than Cunningham. That is an era that included Joe Montana, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Boomer Esaison, Jim Everett, Bernie Kosar and Phil Simms. Show me any four-year window or better when Romo did that vs. top-flight peers of his era. Additionally, RC was a far more decorated player (4x Pro Bowler; NFL MVP–splitting the polls three different seasons; Pro Bowl MVP; NFL Passing Leader; First Team All-Pro QB; one of only three–Unitas,RC, Peyton Manning–Bert Bell Award Winners) than Romo. How can a “merely good” QB have all that over a “great” QB?

            Those of us aware (Black and non-Black) have seen this racial bigotry constantly in this situation. Doug Williams and Cunningham struggle in their first two seasons and we get scouting reports of: “He’ll (Williams) have to show a lot more to prove he can play in this league,” “Send him (Cunningham) to the weight room and make him a running back.” Terry Bradshaw, Vinny Testeverde, Staubach, Elway, Steve Young, Troy Aikman struggle early in their careers and the reports are: “He’s a young quarterback who just needs some time to develop.” GTFOH. Why the double standard? The situations are interchangeable. Just because the race of an individual isn’t mentioned doesn’t mean that racism and bigotry is not being inferred, young (“born in the late ’70s”–OK, whatever) skinhead. And mentioning the race of an individual doesn’t mean that the person mentioning it is a racist or bigot, either.

            You disparage Cunningham’s passer rating, I point out that Elway’s is lower. So, then you change the yardsticks and say Elway was a “volume passer.” You talk about Cunningham’s first two years, I point out his were better than Staubach’s. So, then you fast-forward Staubach to his third year (where he was STILL struggling to establish himself over Craig Morton). Why the desperate need to hold RC or Williams to different standards? It is racism, bigotry, or prejudice. Or all three. And sometimes, redneck, the Black QB (Doug Williams) is a better choice than the White QB (Jay Schroeder). Ask Washington and Joe Gibbs in 1987.

            Of course, to be in denial about the problem doesn’t help matters so once again, two questions STILL need to be answered by you, Razzie:

            1) Why did Hall of Fame Head Coach Joe Gibbs go with Williams as his starter for the ’87 playoffs if Schroeder was better than him?

            2) Why did your “Poster Boy (yeah, right)” Warren Moon (Senior season: PAC-8 Player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) go undrafted and had to leave this country to play in Canada for six years. Quit ducking the questions, you racist coward.

          • Rasputin
            October 22, 2017

            “It is obvious to everyone else reading that my flop comment was referring to Manziel’s NFL career, not his college career.”

            It was obvious to me too, moron, which is why I pointed out that people were suggesting he was a better fit at WR before he ever played a down in the NFL (BEFORE he was a “flop”). The Paul Zimmerman comment about Cunningham that led you to brand him a “racist” wasn’t made until after Cunningham had played his first two dismal years in the NFL. There’s no reason to assume it was based on skin color rather than performance so far. Talk about lousy reading comprehension….

            “For four consecutive seasons, 1987-90, only one QB (Dan Marino) completed more passes and TD passes than Cunningham.”

            And Paul Zimmerman called Cunningham a “budding star” in 1988, near the beginning of that span. You have no point.

            “Show me any four-year window or better when Romo did that vs. top-flight peers of his era. ”

            I’ll settle for this:

            Career Passer Rating Rank At Retirement

            Tony Romo – #4
            Randall Cunningham – #20

            Career Completion Percentage Rank At Retirement

            Tony Romo – #5
            Randall Cunningham – #47

            Yards Per Passing Attempt Rank At Retirement

            Tony Romo – #6 (now back to #5)
            Randall Cunningham – #60

            That said, in a shorter career Romo ranked in the top 10 in TDs just as many years as Cunningham did (7), and ranked in the top 3 in yards 3 years while Cunningham only finished in the top 3 once. As for ratio…

            TDs/INTs

            Romo – 248/117 (2.1 TD/INT)
            Cunningham – 207/134 (1.5 TD/INT)

            Romo also finished in the top 10 in yards/game 6 years while Cunningham only did so 4 years. Romo finished in the top 5 in yards/game 5 years while Cunningham only did so twice.

            They both made 4 Pro Bowls, though Romo was robbed of a fifth in 2011 when he was passed over despite having a 102.5 rating. That ranked 4th that year but he wasn’t one of the 8 QBs chosen. I won’t be like you and assume it was racial just because one of the less deserving QBs to be named was Cam Newton, who posted an 84.5 rating and threw 17 INTs to only 21 TDs (Romo threw 31 TDs to 10 INTs). Sometimes people just get screwed over. It’s not always about skin color.

            Romo led the league in passer rating with 113.2 in 2014, in completion percentage with 69.9% that same year, and in yards/attempt twice in 2006 and 2014. Cunningham led in passer rating with 106 in 1998 (Randy Moss’s rookie year) and never in completion percentage or yards/attempt.

            “Just because the race of an individual isn’t mentioned doesn’t mean that racism and bigotry is not being inferred, young (“born in the late ’70s”–OK, whatever) skinhead. And mentioning the race of an individual doesn’t mean that the person mentioning it is a racist or bigot, either.”

            So now you’re calling me a “skinhead” and a “redneck” because I disagreed with you about Randall Cunningham being one of the greatest QBs of all time, lol. I like your implicit concession that after untold hours of searching you can’t find ANY bigoted comments I’ve made though. You’ve certainly made racially bigoted comments:

            “Harris was a White man and, when it came time to defend Lynn Swann, he couldn’t jump. No racism, just stating the truth.” – Joseph Wright

            Actually Harris posted a 39 inch vertical in a scouting test that would still rank high today.

            “It’s players like Cliff Harris, Larry Wilson, Dick Anderson and Bill Bates that USC’s Sam Cunningham exploited that gave Paul “Bear” Bryant the vision and validation (to closed-minded, in-denial Confederates) to update his talent pool. The Larry Wilsons and Cliff Harrises were out and the Tatums and Ken Houstons were in.” – Joseph Wright

            Of course neither Wilson, Harris, Anderson, or Bates played for Bryant or were “exploited” by Sam Cunningham. The first three, especially Harris, were contemporaries of Tatum (and were all rightly judged as better) and Houston. In fact three of the four a”like” players you listed (gee I wonder what they have in common that causes you to lump them all together) joined the NFL AFTER Ken Houston did, LOL!

            “Cliff Harris was on the track team (lol)? What’d he do? Throw the javelin? Run the mile? Poll vault? I KNOW it wasn’t the sprints or the high-jump. LMFAO!!!” – Joseph Wright

            Cliff Harris was a collegiate sprinter, LOL! On the other thread I also cited the video of him torching most of the competition in the NFL Superstars race near the end of his career.

            No matter how many times you falsely accuse me or others of “racism” it doesn’t make it true. You really are a racial bigot though, Joseph Wright. Refusing to cop to that while trying to deflect with your pathetic accusations marks you as a coward.

            “You disparage Cunningham’s passer rating, I point out that Elway’s is lower. So, then you change the yardsticks and say Elway was a “volume passer.””

            Liar. I’ve always described Elway as a “volume passer” with less than outstanding efficiency stats. I’ve argued that he was great but somewhat overrated for years. He was better than Cunningham though. Even his passer rating was better than Cunningham’s for most of their careers, and Elway’s completion percentage was still better when Cunningham retired.

            I don’t want to bash Cunningham, btw. I like Cunningham and think he was a good QB. He was fun to watch when he wasn’t wearing an Eagles uniform. I didn’t single him out in this discussion, let alone because he was “black” as you falsely claimed earlier.

            YOU singled Cunningham out because he’s black. That’s the only reason you’re talking about him.

            “You talk about Cunningham’s first two years, I point out his were better than Staubach’s.”

            Rookie Season Passer Rating

            Roger Staubach (1969) – 69.5
            Randall Cunningham (1985) – 29.8

            Passer Rating Over First Two Seasons

            Roger Staubach – 51.9; 1970 NFL average – 62.5
            Randall Cunningham – 60.4; 1986 NFL average – 71.5

            LOL! Staubach was closer to the NFL average over his first two seasons as a backup than Cunningham was. He also had a higher completion percentage in absolute terms.

            Completion Percentage Over First Two Years

            Roger Staubach – 51.9%; 1970 NFL average – 51.1%
            Randall Cunningham – 50%; 1986 NFL average – 55.4%

            Staubach was actually above the NFL average in completion percentage even during his first couple of back up years, while Cunningham was several points below it.

            Staubach was above the NFL average in passer rating his rookie season, and way above Cunningham even in absolute terms. Of course from their third seasons on it wasn’t close even in absolute terms.

            Passer Rating Over First Three Seasons

            Roger Staubach – 84.7
            1971 NFL average – 51.3

            Randall Cunningham – 73.6
            1987 NFL average – 72.6

            “1) Why did Hall of Fame Head Coach Joe Gibbs go with Williams as his starter for the ’87 playoffs if Schroeder was better than him?”

            I never said Schroeder was better than him. I just said that even he ended up with better career stats than Williams. I don’t have anything against Doug Williams either. You brought him up to champion him as some QB who was supposedly handed a raw deal and was supposedly better than all these other QBs. I’m just correcting the record, providing a dose of reality.

            Why do you think Gibbs promoted Mark Rypien over Williams in 1988 before the latter even had one full year as a starter? Do you feel Joe Gibbs is a “racist” too or were there other reasons, like maybe Rypien being better?

            “2) Why did your “Poster Boy (yeah, right)” Warren Moon (Senior season: PAC-8 Player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) go undrafted and had to leave this country to play in Canada for six years.”

            What’s your point? I never said there was no anti-black discrimination decades ago. I didn’t keep Warren Moon out of the NFL though, and to my knowledge neither did Paul Zimmerman. But I will point out that you shouldn’t always leap to the assumption that racial discrimination necessarily explains everything. Doug Williams had been drafted in the first round out of little Grambling and had already started at QB for Tampa Bay from 1978 to 1982, and Moon eventually WAS brought into the NFL at Houston in 1984 where he enjoyed a HoF career. There have been plenty of black QBs since.

            A far more pertinent question today is why the NFL allows black power salutes in games without drawing a flag, let alone more serious punishments, when we both know some kind of white power salute would be quickly followed by Goodell running that player out of the league. Both white and black power salutes are evil in my book. I’m opposed to racial double standards in any era. Are you?

          • Joseph Wright
            October 24, 2017

            “I’m opposed to racial double standards in any era. Are you?” Of course, I’m opposed to racial double standards. That’s why I brought them up, dumbass skinheaded redneck. Doug Williams has some tough statistical seasons with the Bucs and the mainstream media narrative is “He’s going to have to show a lot to prove he can play in this league.” Bradshaw, Staubach, Elway, Steve Young, and Testeverde struggle and the narrative is “He’s a promising young quarterback who just needs some time.” When it came to talented Black passers with mobility, they were either given the ultimatum of switch positions to be drafted or stay in the league (Marlin Briscoe) or go to Canada (Warren Moon). Black QBs who were talented passers who had mobilty that slipped through the cracks of those bigoted standards that the NFL suffered from (RC) were immediately faced with the urging of bigoted fans and media members to swich positions (“make him a running back”). White passers with mobility (Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, Young) who struggled early in their careers were, once again, given the benefit of the doubt: “He’s a promising young quarterback who just needs some time.” There’s an imbalance there, Razzie.

            “I never said Schroeder was better than him (Williams).” Well, you certainly INFERRED it. You put up stats, slipped in the Pro Bowl nod in 1986.
            “Joseph Wright: “You really believe Schroeder could have taken Washington to the top in ’87?”

            Razzie: “I don’t know. (Ed. Note: Cop-out) He did get them to the playoffs though, going 8-2 in his 10 starts while Williams went 0-2 in the strike shortened regular season (Williams went 4-6 as a starter the following year). Schroeder also made the Pro Bowl the previous year, won 2 playoff games, and finished with better career stats than Williams as I mentioned earlier.

            “So why do you assume he couldn’t have won?” Because Schroeder was horrible in 1987. The majority of Washington players, including Joe Jacoby, Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders, Jeff Bostic, Dexter Manley, and Darrell Green, were on record saying they were more confident with Doug Williams instead of Jay Schroeder as the starting QB. Obviously, Coach Gibbs felt the same way. The proof is in the pudding because Williams took them all the way.

            You show great endurance and agility constantly moving these yardsticks for Randall Cunningham. Despite the fact that RC was second to only Dan Marino in TD passes and overall completions for a four-year period (basically, a full Presidential term) in an era that featured contemporaries like Joe Montana, Boomer Esaison, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Bernie Kosar, and John Elway, you say Romo–ROMO!–ranked better amongst his peers. You could not provide the four-year window AT ALL. How many times do we have to go over this: Tony Romo was NEVER a great quarterback. RC: Four-time Pro Bowler (three times a starter); Pro Bowl MVP; Split the NFL MVP polls three different seasons (1988, 1990,1998); League passer rating leader (1998); Established NFL scoring record for an offense (1998); One of only three three-time winners of the prestigious Bert Bell Award (the others: Johnny Unitas & Peyton Manning); Advanced farther (Conference Title Game) and more often in the playoffs. A “merely good” QB (RC) doesn’t leave a “great” (Romo? Great? LMFAO!!!) QB in the dust like that in honors. It just doesn’t happen. (BTW, that 2014 Detroit playoff win where the offiating crew picked up the late 4th quarter flag on the pass interferancing Dallas defender…HUGE asterisk.)

            RC was much better than Romo. Yeah, yeah we know he had a better (inflated is more like it) passer rating. However, it’s pointed out RC’s rating is better than Elway’s and–Presto! Razzie Yardstick change!–Elway was a “volume passer.” GTFOH! So, Razzie, was Romo a better QB than Elway? It’s pointed out that Randall was better than Staubach in their first two years and you immediately, deceitfully and cowardly fast-forward Staubach to his third year. When I call you on that, you now are saying Staubach “was closer to the league average” in his first two years…please. The adjusting of yardsticks and racial double standards don’t end with you do they, redneck. And don’t think I didn’t catch your total cowardly omission of Staubach’s NFL sophomore crash and burn season in contrast to Cunningham’s strong jump in his NFL sophomore season. After two NFL seasons, RC was better than Staubach. Only a bigoted racist in denial can’t admit that. Did Cunningham have a better career than Stabach or Elway? No. He also never had ALL the resources at his disposal (fine offensive line: Eagles; Great defense: Vikings) like Staubach did, nor a great runner (i.e., Terrell Davis) to save/revive his legacy like Elway did. But, was RC a better QB than Tony Romo? Absolutely.

            “I didn’t keep Warren Moon out of the NFL though, and to my knowledge neither did Paul Zimmerman. But I will point out that you shouldn’t always leap to the assumption that racial discrimination necessarily explains everything.”

            Once again, tell us WHY was Warren Moon not even drafted immediately after his senior season at U. of Washington (PAC-8 Player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) by the NFL and had to leave his country for six years. Yeah, we know he eventually came back. Why did he have to find work–out of the country–to begin with? You have never directly answered this question.

          • Rasputin
            November 1, 2017

            We’ve established you’re a racial bigot, Joseph Wright. The quotes are all over this page. Calling me a “skinheaded redneck” when you can’t produce a single bigoted thing I’ve ever said isn’t much of a retort. It’s just lame I know you are but what am I deflection. It’s dishonest and cowardly. You should just cop to your prejudice, admit it’s one of your flaws (no one’s perfect), stop falsely accusing everyone else of “racism”, and move on.

            “Of course, I’m opposed to racial double standards.”

            So you think the league should crack down on the black power salutes currently being delivered in games?

            “RC was much better than Romo.”

            Career Passer Rating Rank At Retirement
            Tony Romo – #4
            Randall Cunningham – #20

            Career Completion Percentage Rank At Retirement
            Tony Romo – #5
            Randall Cunningham – #47

            Yards Per Passing Attempt Rank At Retirement
            Tony Romo – #6 (now back to #5)
            Randall Cunningham – #60

            I don’t know what else to say. Romo even ranked in the top 3 in yards three years while Cunningham only did that once. Your absurdly contrived, selective garbage about a “four year window” in one volume stat is pathetic. Romo even had better volume stats, at least on a yearly basis. Stats are more important for judging QBs than subjective accolades, but Romo even had about as many of the latter in a shorter career as Cunningham (except the Bert Bell award), and deserved more Pro Bowls than he was awarded. For most of Romo’s career the media savaged him unfairly. But the stats are objective.

            “Yeah, yeah we know he had a better (inflated is more like it) passer rating.”

            I’ve been posting their ranks relative to their eras, moron. So no inflation.

            “After two NFL seasons, RC was better than Staubach. Only a bigoted racist in denial can’t admit that.”

            Or someone who knows Staubach had a higher completion percentage even during his first two years as a backup than Cunningham, despite playing 16 years earlier. Staubach was above the league average while Cunningham was well below it. Staubach was also closer to the league average in passer rating than Cunningham was. Or lots of other people can disagree with you even if they don’t know that stuff without being “a bigoted racist in denial”. Maybe they know how much better Staubach was overall, maybe they know Cunningham got to play a lot more those first two years, or maybe they’re just prejudiced against Eagles (as you’re prejudiced against Cowboys). Those other guys listed earlier all were better than Cunningham their first two years too, as the facts I posted show. By your own logic you’re “a bigoted racist in denial”.

            Insanely stupid comments like that leave you with zero credibility. Your earlier comments also prove you’re a liar. Remember when you said this just a few posts ago?

            (earlier): “Romo’s passing statistics are inflated because he played in an era that has basically shackled defenders in pass coverage. It’s ridiculous that a guy like him completed 60+ percent of his pass”

            That’s what guys from earlier eras said about the 1980s, especially after the chuck rule change in 1978 led to an explosion in stat inflation. And this very post you said this:

            “Yeah, yeah we know he had a better (inflated is more like it) passer rating.”

            For you to be whining about stat inflation even though I WAS taking it into account, only for you to then turn around and try to ignore it in your own half-baked, cherry-picked comparisons symbolizes everything that’s wrong with you here.

            You’re a serial liar, you project your faults onto others, and you’re a drooling moron, Joseph Wright.

            “He also never had ALL the resources at his disposal”

            Cunningham had a great defense that largely carried the team. Romo didn’t, and had to carry the team himself.

            “(BTW, that 2014 Detroit playoff win where the offiating crew picked up the late 4th quarter flag on the pass interferancing Dallas defender…”

            A lot of calls went against Dallas that game, and in the one against the Packers Dez caught it.

            “However, it’s pointed out RC’s rating is better than Elway’s and–Presto! Razzie Yardstick change!–Elway was a “volume passer.” GTFOH! So, Razzie, was Romo a better QB than Elway? ”

            No yardstick moving by me. I never said passer rating is the only stat that matters. I’ve been posting several different metrics myself, including completion percentage and y/a and Elway beats Cunningham in both. No, the “volume” thing means Elway is exceptional in another category. He passed for a crapload of yards. Cunningham didn’t. That’s Elway’s claim to fame. Romo lacked Elway’s longevity and no one but Favre rivaled John’s arm strength. That said, if I had to win one game I’d take Romo (or Aikman or several other QBs) over Elway without hesitation. Probably not Cunningham though.

            Oh, and you didn’t point anything out, halfwit. I’ve been writing extensively about Elway’s stats in comparison to others for years on various sites.

            I really don’t care about your obsession with comparing Doug Williams to Jay Schroeder. Schroeder made a Pro Bowl (Williams didn’t), Schroeder won two playoff games in 1986, and Schroeder won 8 games starting to Williams’ 0 in the 1987 regular season. Schroeder also posted a higher career passer rating, completion percentage, and yardage total than Williams. Those are facts.

            Why do you care? What’s your point?

            “You really believe Schroeder could have taken Washington to the top in ’87?” Razzie: “I don’t know. (Ed. Note: Cop-out)”

            No, my response was to you asking “would” Schroeder have won the Super Bowl that year, not “could” he have. Of course he could have. You’ve been busted lying again, altering the quote like a weasel. And you’re wrong. “I don’t know” is the honest answer to your first question. You claiming you do know when all you know is that there’s no way to prove or disprove what you say is the cop out.

            You dodged the question about why you feel Gibbs benched Williams the following year in favor of Rypien. Do you feel Gibbs was “racist”?

            The truth is Williams and Schroeder were both average QBs, and that Williams got a shot to play in the Super Bowl and played a great game. Good for him.

            “…(RC) were immediately faced with the urging of bigoted fans and media members to swich positions (“make him a running back”).”

            Or maybe they weren’t bigots. Maybe they were looking at things like Cunningham almost leading his team in rushing despite being a backup QB. The guy ran for 540 yards at 8.2 y/c and rushed for 5 TDs as a backup in 1987. The other guys you listed didn’t do that, and their passing stats were better than his. If a backup QB is excelling at running and below average in the skill most important to his own position, it’s not unreasonable to entertain the possibility that maybe he should switch positions. Again, they did that with Johnny Manziel and lots of other good running QBs before they ever played a down in the NFL.

            Then you keep going back to this Warren Moon topic. Let’s get this straight. I never said there was no anti-black prejudice, especially in the 1970s or earlier. Me refuting your false, often ludicrous accusations of discrimination doesn’t mean I’m claiming there weren’t real examples of discrimination. Unfortunately you baselessly tossing around “racist” labels against innocent people and/or deeds only clouds the issue and makes it harder to isolate and deal with true bigotry. You take grains of truth and stretch them into slanderous mud balls.

            There are also different types of prejudice. In the 70s some doubted doubted whether a black guy could succeed at QB on the pro level. The CFL didn’t have the luxury of being finicky about top flight US collegiate talent, so Moon got his shot there. He did great, he announced he wanted to play in the NFL, and a BIDDING WAR ensued for his services. These were mostly still the same people who had been running the NFL a few years earlier. They saw him have success and said, “Oh. Ok.”

            This indicates that it wasn’t about keeping the black man down. They were doing what they thought was best to help their teams win. It’s like teams in more recent years shying away from hiring white cornerbacks or taking a risk on white WRs until this recent wave of successful white WRs. You’ve made your own feelings on white safeties clear. That has less justification than those 1970s skeptics since some of the best current NFL safeties are white guys.

            Moon wasn’t the first black NFL QB, but he was the first great black QB. Randall Cunningham was drafted the following year and lots of other black QBs soon followed. Cunningham even received 3 Bert Bell awards, as you keep saying, despite his less than stellar passing stats, which would be odd if the owners, coaches, and media who voted for it all rabidly hated black people.

            Moon getting passed over in the 1970s and having to wait until the 1980s for his shot says absolutely nothing about Paul Zimmerman, unless you can find some quote from him on that topic, or about the suggestion after his first two dismal passing and excellent running years that maybe Cunningham should switch to RB, any more than it does about suggestions that Johnny Manziel should switch positions.

            In short, stop assuming the worst about other people, stop judging people by their skin color, and look to the plank in your own eye.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 2, 2017

            “I don’t know what else to say. Romo even ranked in the top 3 in yards three years while Cunningham only did that once. Your absurdly contrived, selective garbage about a “four year window” in one volume stat is pathetic. Romo even had better volume stats, at least on a yearly basis. Stats are more important for judging QBs than subjective accolades, but Romo even had about as many of the latter in a shorter career as Cunningham (except the Bert Bell award), and deserved more Pro Bowls than he was awarded. For most of Romo’s career the media savaged him unfairly. But the stats are objective.”

            No, the stats are skewed because he accumulated them in the best possible era to complete passes because the defenses have been basically handcuffed in pass coverage by rule changes. Romo’s completion percentages must be looked at with enormous skepticism because Stabler, Montana, Ken Anderson, and even Ken O’Brien were far better passers than Romo with “lower” completion percentages. He had four seasons with 30+ TD passes in an era where at least four guys are tossing that many every season. And at least two guys are tossing 40+. Further, at least five QBs in the top ten passer ratings are posting 100+. Ridiculous.

            It was more than one and very important volume stats that I pointed out RC was superior than Romo in. NFL Hall of Fame sportswriter Ray Didinger pointed out this “absurdly contrived, selective garbage about a ‘four year window'” as you so idiotically described it (well, Ray is White, so I guess you’ll give HIM some credibility. Right, Razzie?), that from 1987-90 (RC’s first four years as an undisputed starter) only one QB completed more passes (Marino). And only one QB (Marino) completed more TD passes than RC. Romo never had a span (a U.S. Presidential term, basically) like that among his top peers. And during that time RC was battling with Montana, Elway, Moon, Jim Kelly, Boomer Esaison, Bernie Kosar, Phil Simms and Jim Everett. How bad could RC’s “throwing mechanics” have been if he could accomplish this PASSING the football. Completions and TD passes are what lead to wins, dummy. Your problem wasn’t RC’s passing skills but his skin color, redneck. Or was it the fact that he beat Dallas eight straight times from ’87-92 and then roasted them on national TV on Thanksgiving 1998? Still butthurt from those ass-whuppings?

            “(Cunningham) also never had ALL the resources at his disposal (like Staubach)”–Me.
            School is now in session, junior: For a QB to win a Super Bowl, assuming he has quality skill players around him (i.e., reliable pass catchers), he needs two other things that are out of his control: A solid offensive line and a solid defense. Those are the responsibilities of the coaches and upper management. For Cunningham’s career, the glass was always half empty. In Philadelphia he had no O-line to go with the great defense, in Minnesota he had no defense (John Randle but who else?) to go with the great O-line he had. Dan Fouts, Dan Marino–no defense–and Doug Williams in Tampa Bay–no offensive line–had the same problems.

            “Cunningham had a great defense that largely carried the team. Romo didn’t, and had to carry the team himself.” Way to sound like Rush Limbaugh (Remember disparaging Donovan McNabb? He got his ass fired for that similar dumb remark) and once again expose your racist self, redneck. Cunningham clearly carried those late-80s/ early 90s Eagles into the playoffs. During his time in Philly, whenever he missed extensive time due to injury (1991,1993) they missed the playoffs. And in 1991, the defense was No. 1 across the board except in points allowed. As Doug Williams said, “How in the hell are you going to say that Randall Cunningham is overrated? If the Eagle don’t have Randall, they don’t win. It’s that simple, ” and “…Now if the Eagles got to the Super Bowl, you’d have to say Randall got them there. They don’t even make the playoffs without Randall.”

            Speaking of Doug Williams…No, Joe Gibbs wasn’t wrong for going with Mark Rypien as Doug Williams health declined (appendicitis; bad back). I never considered Gibbs a racist. Unlike you, Razzie, he is a clear thinker…Even when Tampa Bay Buccaneers management tried to discourage Gibbs from acquiring him after the USFL folded. The redneck owner Hugh Culverhouse and his flunky, GM Phil Krueger, were essentially trying to freeze Williams out of returning to the NFL.

            You lost it, and your credibility, with this right here: “…if I had to win one game I’d take Romo over Elway without hesitation. Probably not Cunningham though.” Ridiculous. Elway and Cunningham were FAR better QBs than Romo. Tony Romo was NEVER a great quarterback.

            So, the questions, once again:

            1) Why did Hall of Fame Head Coach Joe Gibbs decide to start Doug Williams at QB for the ’87 playoffs despite the “fact” the Jay Schroeder had (in your view) done such a “great job” quarterbacking the team?

            2) Why did Warren Moon go undrafted by the NFL after his successful senior year at the University of Washington (PAC-8 player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) and had to leave his country to play in Canada for six years?

            3) A. So, where did RC rank in career TD passes at the time of his retirement vs. Romo at the time of his retirement? B. How many playoff wins did RC have in his career vs. Romo’s playoff career? C. How many times did RC make the AP All-Pro Team 1st or 2nd team vs Romo? D. How many times was Romo named or split the league’s season MVP award? E. How many NFL Passing Titles did Tony Romo have?

            Answer the questions directly, redneck coward. No cop-outs –“There are also different types of prejudice. In the 70s some doubted doubted whether a black guy could succeed at QB on the pro level.” That’s not prejudice, that’s racism. “They saw him have success (in the CFL) and said, “Oh. Ok.” Oh, God.–this time, junior skinhead.

          • Rasputin
            November 2, 2017

            “No, the stats are skewed because he accumulated them in the best possible era to complete passes…”

            What part of era rankings do you not get? I’ve been posting the QBs’ performance compared to their own contemporaries and Romo was better across the board. It’s not even close. Serious question: Do you have a learning disability, Joseph Wright? It’s ok to admit if you do. If you say yes I’ll take that into account and be nicer and more patient in my responses.

            “How bad could RC’s “throwing mechanics” have been if he could accomplish this PASSING the football.”

            I wouldn’t say “bad” so much as unusual for an NFL QB. Cunningham eventually made his sandlot style work in the league, which was one of the reasons he was so fun to watch.

            “Your problem wasn’t RC’s passing skills but his skin color, redneck. Or was it the fact that he beat Dallas eight straight times from ’87-92 and then roasted them on national TV on Thanksgiving 1998? Still butthurt from those ass-whuppings?”

            That you only now concede there could be completely different and vastly more likely reasons for people to dislike RC such as team rooting interest (once I spoonfed you the possibility last post) after dozens of posts of you baselessly calling me “racist” just shows how empty everything you say is. Despite his years as an Eagle or that one Randy Moss game I generally DO like RC and remember him more for his time as a rare bright spot for the Cowboys in the 2000s. Dallas beating Cunningham’s Eagles 30-11 and 34-10 respectively in the playoffs also helps erode any bad feelings, not that I wouldn’t be objective anyway.

            Of course the only reason YOU care about him is because of his skin color. Do you even deny that? When are you going to stop projecting your own bigotry onto others, Joseph Wright? And the only ass whoopings anyone’s smarting from here are the ones you’re still feeling from me all over this site.

            “Cunningham clearly carried those late-80s/ early 90s Eagles into the playoffs. During his time in Philly, whenever he missed extensive time due to injury (1991,1993) they missed the playoffs. And in 1991, the defense was No. 1 across the board except in points allowed.”

            You just made my point for me. How many #1 or even top 5 defenses did Romo have? Answer: zero. He never even had a top 5 defense as Cunningham did multiple years. Romo’s defenses usually weren’t even in the top 10. The Eagles also made the playoffs their first year without Cunningham in 1996 with Rodney Peete at QB and another top 5 defense. I never said Cunningham was irrelevant though. Their success was due to a combination of his good QB play and great play from the Buddy Ryan-installed defense.

            “As Doug Williams said, “How in the hell are you going to say that Randall Cunningham is overrated? If the Eagle don’t have Randall, they don’t win. It’s that simple,”

            I don’t think RC is overrated, except by you. Maybe the league/media figures whom you stupidly branded as “racist” were a bit too effusive in giving him the Bert Bell award, but I think Cunningham is generally rated about right. He’s not Canton worthy but was a good QB who had a very good career. I personally rank Cunningham above Donovan McNabb, whom you just brought up, who WAS overrated.

            “Elway and Cunningham were FAR better QBs than Romo.”

            Unless you think passer rating and completion percentage matter. Remember we’re talking one game here, not which QB you’d prefer for his entire career.

            “So, where did RC rank in career TD passes at the time of his retirement vs. Romo at the time of his retirement? B. How many playoff wins did RC have in his career vs. Romo’s playoff career?”

            Cunningham had a longer career and a much better defense. Why do you ignore the yearly rankings breakdown I provided for TDs, yards, and other stats, coward? Romo was a much better efficiency QB but he even usually beat Cunningham in volume (including era adjusted rankings).

            I already answered your other questions in more detail than they deserved. You answer mine, including this one on racial prejudice:

            Isn’t your dismissal of “white” safeties now even less empirically justified than the (also wrong) reluctance to make big bets on black QBs in the 1970s, given that at that time there had been no great black NFL QBs yet (as soon as Moon came along and changed that you saw opportunities for black QBs greatly expand pretty much overnight) while some of the best current safeties even now are white?

            Isn’t your racial prejudice even more inexcusable than the prejudice of those league officials back in the 1970s?

            And why did you completely ignore my advice to ask the writers here their opinions on Paul Zimmerman, Joseph Wright? What are you afraid of?

          • Joseph Wright
            November 2, 2017

            “I already answered your other questions in more detail than they deserved.”
            You have never DIRECTLY answered these questions, you’ve avoided or danced around them (like sorry-ass Cliff Harris avoiding Larry Csonka and/or Earl Campbell). ONCE AGAIN:

            1) Why did Hall of Fame Head Coach Joe Gibbs decide to start Doug Williams at QB for the ’87 playoffs despite the “fact” the Jay Schroeder had (in your view) done such a “great job” quarterbacking the team?

            2) Why did Warren Moon go undrafted by the NFL after his successful senior year at the University of Washington (PAC-8 player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) and had to leave his country to play in Canada for six years?

            3) A. So, where did RC rank in career TD passes at the time of his retirement vs. Romo at the time of his retirement? B. How many playoff wins did RC have in his career vs. Romo’s playoff career? C. How many times did RC make the AP All-Pro Team 1st or 2nd team vs Romo? D. How many times was Romo named or split the league’s season MVP award? E. How many NFL Passing Titles did Tony Romo have?

            Hint: Start Questions 1 and 2 with “Because” and then continue with the reason. Jeez.

          • Rasputin
            November 2, 2017

            So you’re just dodging my questions like the coward you are, while ignoring the answers I’ve already given to your moronic questions. I’m not playing that game, little Joey.

            PS – Cliff Harris never avoided anyone. Tatum was the one caught on tape making that business decision in the playoffs after Csonka trucked him a few times, lol.

          • Rasputin
            November 1, 2017

            Rick, Clark, and Ron probably all personally know Paul Zimmerman, Joseph Wright. Why don’t you ask them if they think he’s “racist”? I haven’t seen any racial bigotry from him and I think your particular arguments are insipid but I’ve never met the man and don’t know that much about him. You should ask for their take.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 2, 2017

            Zimmerman is at least a bigot (and a racist) and a cronyist–“make him (R.Cunningham) a running back”; “You cannot allow this man (Ken Stabler) in the Hall of Fame.” Instead of me asking them if Z is a racist, Razzie, why don’t you ask them if RC should have been made a running back and if they feel Stabler’s induction was undeserved.

          • Rasputin
            November 2, 2017

            Because they personally know Paul Zimmerman, which neither of us do. Your other questions deal with on the field stuff that we can all watch and form our opinions on (and I said I WOULDN’T have made RC a RB, but just that it wasn’t a crazy idea by Zimmerman after the 1986 season when his passing stats were well below average but he was almost leading the team in rushing from the backup QB spot; it certainly wasn’t any more “racist” than people suggesting Johnny Manziel should switch to WR before he had even played a down in the NFL).

          • Joseph Wright
            November 2, 2017

            Stop comparing Manziel to Cunningham. Manziel was an NFL flop. RC was an All-Pro/Pro Bowl/League MVP-caliber performer. WOW!!! As I’m typing this, I see this Pop-up to my right–Moon: Put McNabb in the Hall. So McNabb, who you and your fellow bigot and racist, Rush Limbaugh, say was “overrated,” gets an endorsement from your newfound “Poster Boy” (yeah, right), Warren Moon. Not your day, huh, Razzie. BTW, I’ve never been deleted for racist statements on this site so my statements on Cliff Harris and Larry Wilson must be deemed valid (unlike your bigoted, racist thoughts on Black Lives Matter and Kenny Easley’s HOF speech. Imagine what Cookie Gilchrist’s HOF speech would have been like had he lived to be inducted). Later, redneck.

          • Rasputin
            November 2, 2017

            Manziel wasn’t a “flop” before he started playing in the NFL, and Cunningham wasn’t a Pro Bowler after his first two dismal seasons. You seriously should answer that question about whether you have a learning disability of some kind, Joseph Wright.

            McNabb’s career completion percentage was BELOW THE NFL AVERAGE for his era, LOL! If you’re below the league average in completion percentage you aren’t a HoF QB. Period. Just because I think Moon was a great player and had a poster of him on my wall as a kid doesn’t mean I think he’s right about everything.

            Oh, and I’ve never been deleted for racist statements either. Unlike you, I haven’t made any racist statements.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 2, 2017

            I’m ducking no questions. Those guys are all in the HOF voting committee and have to deal with Z regularly and disparaging remarks puts them out of the clique, what are they really going to say? Stop asking dumb questions. Do you think anyone within the Tampa Bay ranks would ever say that redneck Hugh Culverhouse was a racist? And you call yourself a chess player? Name one White has ever publicly called another White in the NFL out for being a racist. It doesn’t happen. It’s covered up. You do it yourself. Constantly ducking the Warren Moon/NFL 1978 draft question is the prime example. Can’t bring yourself to tell the truth can you, redneck? As your beloved friend Bachslunch says, “More as time allows.”

          • Rasputin
            November 2, 2017

            You’re preemptively accusing Rick Gosselin, Clark Judge, and Ron Borges of lying because of their skin color? Sounds like another cowardly (and certainly bigoted) evasion on your part. Borges in particular seems like a pugnacious SJW type who likely adopts the textbook liberal position on any issue. I bet he’s called countless white people “racist”. Why not give them a chance? They know a lot more about Paul Zimmerman than you do. Maybe one or more of them will agree with you. Or if they don’t, maybe they’ll provide insights that will cause you to reconsider your position.

            Don’t be closed minded or afraid to learn, Joseph Wright. Set aside your (very real) bigotry at least temporarily.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 2, 2017

            Bump this, I’m no coward like Bachlunch or a redneck racist troll who obviously uses a fake name (“Rasputin”–whatever) to hide behind racist observations. I never accused the above gentlemen of lying because of their skin color, redneck. Tell you what. I’ll ask them about Zimmerman’s racism AFTER you can show me ANY documented proof of Zimmerman saying Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, or Steve Young should shift to another position after their respective first two dismal years as NFL QBs. Then if they say “No,” I’ll stand corrected. Deal?

            You have STILL FAILED to directly answer:
            1) Why did Hall of Fame Head Coach Joe Gibbs decide to start Doug Williams at QB for the ’87 playoffs despite the “fact” the Jay Schroeder had (in your view) done such a “great job” quarterbacking the team?

            2) Why did Warren Moon go undrafted by the NFL after his successful senior year at the University of Washington (PAC-8 player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) and had to leave his country to play in Canada for six years?

            3) A. So, where did RC rank in career TD passes at the time of his retirement vs. Romo at the time of his retirement? B. How many playoff wins did RC have in his career vs. Romo’s playoff career? C. How many times did RC make the AP All-Pro Team 1st or 2nd team vs Romo? D. How many times was Romo named or split the league’s season MVP award? E. How many NFL Passing Titles did Tony Romo have?

            Hint: Start Questions 1 and 2 with “Because” and then continue with the reason. Jeez.

          • Rasputin
            November 2, 2017

            “I never accused the above gentlemen of lying because of their skin color”

            Here’s what you said after I suggested you ask the writers here, who actually know Zimmerman, if he’s a “racist”.

            Joseph Wright: “Name one White has ever publicly called another White in the NFL out for being a racist. It doesn’t happen. It’s covered up. You do it yourself. Constantly ducking the Warren Moon/NFL 1978 draft question is the prime example. Can’t bring yourself to tell the truth can you, redneck?”

            BTW, that was after I had already commented extensively about racial prejudice against black QBs back in the 1970s, comparing it to the racial prejudice you’ve consistently exhibited here, from your various comments about what “White(s)” supposedly do to protect each other, to dismissing white safeties as garbage, to flippantly and ignorantly tossing around epithets like “redneck” or “skinhead” when you’re flustered and defensive.

            All I said is that you should use the resource you have here of access to writers who actually know Zimmerman. See what they say. What have you got to lose? That you’re too much of a closed minded, bigoted coward to even ask them speaks volumes.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 2, 2017

            Uh, dumbass? Name one White has ever publicly called another White in the NFL out for being a racist. It doesn’t happen. It’s covered up. Can you prove me wrong? Look at the NBA. You think the NBA owners didn’t know about Donald Sterling’s racism BEFORE he was exposed?

            Skip Bayless got his start out here at the L.A. Times. In 1977, the best senior QB coming out of college was Doug Williams, who threw 38 TD passes at Grambling and finished fourth in the Heisman race. Bayless asked a prominent NFL GM about Doug Williams. The man, speaking on the cowardly condition of anonymity, told Bayless that his team “had no use” for Williams saying that Williams “didn’t think well enough to be an NFL quarterback.” Bayless was astonished. “If you put Doug Williams stats (6-4, 220, 38 TD passes, strong arm) and profile–minus the skin color–into a computer,” Bayless said, “it would spit out ‘No. 1 pick in the draft.'”

            That’s the coverup I’m talking about. Not Bayless. It is his job to protect his sources if they request anonymity or speak off the record. However, that cowardly GM should have been man enough to put his name by that statement.

            “Ask them if Zimmerman is a racist…” “What have you got to lose…” What a stupid request. What the hell are the gonna say? Instead, let’s go for real exoneration for Z. You show me Zimmerman suggesting a position move after the dismal respective first two seasons of Tarkenton, Staubach (who took a major dive his second year; Cunningham went up), Elway, and Steve Young, then we can talk. I never said you and Zimmerman kept Moon out of the NFL, fool. However, it must be pointed out that had James Harris (Rams) and Doug Williams (Buccaneers) hadn’t shown some NFL success, Moon quite likely would have had to play his whole career in Canada as did a lot of other deserving, talented Black QBs.

            But, ONCE AGAIN, direct answers to direct questions:

            1) Why did Hall of Fame Head Coach Joe Gibbs decide to start Doug Williams at QB for the ’87 playoffs despite the “fact” the Jay Schroeder had (in your view) done such a “great job” quarterbacking the team?

            2) Why did Warren Moon go undrafted by the NFL after his successful senior year at the University of Washington (PAC-8 player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) and had to leave his country to play in Canada for six years?

            3) A. So, where did RC rank in career TD passes at the time of his retirement vs. Romo at the time of his retirement? B. How many playoff wins did RC have in his career vs. Romo’s playoff career? C. How many times did RC make the AP All-Pro Team 1st or 2nd team vs Romo? D. How many times was Romo named or split the league’s season MVP award? E. How many NFL Passing Titles did Tony Romo have?

            Hint: Start Questions 1 and 2 with “Because” and then continue with the reason. redneck.

          • Rasputin
            November 2, 2017

            I love how you stupidly go from denying that you’re using their skin color against them (aka bigotry defined) to doubling down on doing just that after I reminded you of your own words about “White(s)” just a couple of posts ago, Joseph Wright. You never did answer that question about whether you have a learning disability or some other kind of mental handicap.

            Your excuses for being too much of a coward to even ask the writers here for their input don’t fly.

            “Name one White has ever publicly called another White in the NFL out for being a racist. It doesn’t happen. It’s covered up.”

            Redskins owner George Preston Marshall was attacked by writers for not hiring any black players into the early 1960s, and creatively mocked by, among others, Cowboys owner Clint Murchison (including through one plot by Murchison’s friends to release 75 white and 1 black chicken onto the Redskins’ field at halftime).

            But we’re talking about media here. Poor Jimmy the Greek lost his NFL analyst job in 1988 just for clumsily trying to praise blacks’ athleticism. Black sportscaster Irv Cross, who worked with Jimmy for years, claimed he wasn’t racist, but that didn’t stop the mostly white media from almost universally denouncing him as such.

            Rush Limbaugh was falsely accused of “racism” in much of the media just for suggesting that the media had an interest in seeing black QB success, and an emotional investment in Donovan McNabb in particular given the hype surrounding his entrance into the league about how he was going to revolutionize the NFL (he didn’t, and most people hate to admit they were wrong). Limbaugh’s comments were likely correct and even if they weren’t that doesn’t make them “racist”. He even made it clear that such media concern was irrational and unnecessary since there were already other good black QBs (if not “revolutionary” ones), but he was still fired from his ESPN gig (it may have been a blessing to get off that sinking ship, though if ESPN was the kind of company that could employ both someone like Limbaugh and an insecure has-been like Tom Jackson or strident race baiter like Jemele Hill at the same time, appealing to the entire country rather than just a far left sliver of it, maybe it wouldn’t be the sinking ship it is today).

            The ensuing media storm proved Rush right if anything, and various sportswriters have since come out and admitted it, including some staunchly liberal ones (e.g. google Slate “Rush Limbaugh Was Right”), but some idiots still attack his comments as “racist”.

            Or look at all the recent virtue signaling from Bob Costas and countless others condemning the name “Redskins” for supposedly being racist. Polls show American Indians themselves disagree, but “journalists” of all skin colors LOVE accusing white people of “racism”, whether deserved or not, especially if they can posture as righteous in the process. So your premise is completely wrong.

            Even if it wasn’t, dismissing Rick, Ron, and Clark here as so unreliable that they’re not even worth asking despite their personal knowledge of the man you’re accusing, because their skin color suggests they’ll just cover up for a fellow “White” (sic), is certainly racially prejudiced and wrong.

            PS – Skip Bayless, lol? I’m not sure what you’re even trying to argue there since I laid out 1970s prejudice against black QBs in more detail than you had, but Bayless is a terrible source for anything, especially if his “source” is anonymous. He made his bones as an anti-Cowboys troll in Dallas before making the national media (where he’s apparently switched into some kind of pro Cowboys troll, not that I watch his show). Among other countless false claims, in the 1990s he spread around the rumor that Troy Aikman was gay. The guy is a sleazebag with zero credibility. Sort of like of you.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 3, 2017

            I feel completely vindicated by your latest racist response based on lies, redneck. I never said these fine gentlemen who write for this site would be covering for Zimmerman because they are White. It is the overall sports journalists’ code, the same one that led Michael Wilbon to shamefully try to cover for the White writer who asked the infamous “How long have you been a Black quarterback?” question to Doug Williams. As for Gosselin, Borges, and Clark–men who have championed the causes or, at least, the rights of Colin Kaepernick, Jack Tatum, and others–I am not going to drag them in to your idiotic sleazy game by asking them YOUR dumb question.

            Your siding with Rush Limbaugh’s racist assessment of Donovan McNabb (He only went on to lead the Eagles into the Super Bowl; there have been plenty of overrated White QBs in the NFL–McMahon, Testeverde, Jeff George– and no one made it a racial issue; Limbaugh was just dead wrong), your insistance that “Redskins” (unlike redneck) is not racially insensitive (BTW, the term is Native Americans, not American Indians–what an idiotic dipstick you are), and your criticism of Jimmy the Greek’s firing (and Al Campanis’, no doubt) further reveals your true self–that of a bigoted, racist redneck.

            Well, well, well. You side with “poor Jimmy the Greek.” The man who reported on point spreads on national TV (I thought the league was against gambling) and in that drunk, racist dribble said that, with the dominance of Black athletes in fooball, if you gave Blacks head coaching jobs, what would be left for the Whites? So don’t give Blacks head coaching jobs, Jimmy? Interesting that about a week before that, in the pre-game of the Washington-Chicago playoff matchup, he asked Sonny Jurgensen “Why the change (Jay Schroeder to Williams) now (the playoffs)? Do you feel there is a choke factor (with Williams)?” Williams went on to win that game for Washington, keyed by completing 9-11 third down passes in the game. Of course, Williams went on to take the team all the way to the Super Bowl Title. So much for the “choke factor.”

            Although the Troy Aikman allusion was wrong, Skip Bayless has always been a standup guy. His source was anonymous because his source was a racist coward who demanded anonymity (“We have no use for Doug Williams…He doesn’t think well enough to be an NFL quarterback”). So, if that anonymous off-the-record scumbag is still alive, you two would be very happy together.

            So any Black person who calls you out on your flaws has a learning disability? Way to throw the autistic and Down Syndrome communities under the bus, redneck. Oh well, according to you–just like you told another female on this website–“they’re just drops in a bucket.”

            If Cookie Gilchrist had been elected to the HOF and gave his speech, you be ripping him just like you have Jim Brown, Kenny Easley, and Kaepernick.

            ONCE AGAIN with direct answers:
            1) Why did Hall of Fame Head Coach Joe Gibbs decide to start Doug Williams at QB for the ’87 playoffs despite the “fact” the Jay Schroeder had (in your view) done such a “great job” quarterbacking the team?

            2) Why did Warren Moon go undrafted by the NFL after his successful senior year at the University of Washington (PAC-8 player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) and had to leave his country to play in Canada for six years?

            3) A. So, where did RC rank in career TD passes at the time of his retirement vs. Romo at the time of his retirement? B. How many playoff wins did RC have in his career vs. Romo’s playoff career? C. How many times did RC make the AP All-Pro Team 1st or 2nd team vs Romo? D. How many times was Romo named or split the league’s season MVP award? E. How many NFL Passing Titles did Tony Romo have?

            Hint: Start Questions 1 and 2 with “Because” and then continue with the reason.

          • Rasputin
            November 3, 2017

            “I never said these fine gentlemen who write for this site would be covering for Zimmerman because they are White. It is the overall sports journalists’ code,”

            Too late to backpedal here, little Joey. Here’s what you said as your excuse for not asking the writers here for their take on Zimmerman when they actually know him:

            Joseph Wright: “Name one White has ever publicly called another White in the NFL out for being a racist. It doesn’t happen. It’s covered up.”

            You’re saying Rick, Ron, and Clark aren’t worth asking because they’re white. Like with your other bigoted comments, Joseph Wright, you can’t pretend you didn’t say this because the proof is there in black and white for anyone to see. At least be man enough to stand by your pronouncements.

            “It is the overall sports journalists’ code, the same one that led Michael Wilbon to shamefully try to cover for the White writer who asked the infamous “How long have you been a Black quarterback?” question to Doug Williams.”

            So you’re also saying you assume that Rick, Ron, and Clark would lie because they’re sports writers?

            “your insistance that “Redskins” (unlike redneck) is not racially insensitive (BTW, the term is Native Americans, not American Indians–what an idiotic dipstick you are),”

            Wrong, little Joey. Unlike you I actually know what I’m talking about. In the 1970s an intertribal conference voted for “American Indian” over alternatives as their preferred ethnic designation. Polling has shown Indians still prefer “American Indian” to “Native American”. “Native American” is a BS PC term largely pushed by white campus liberals who don’t personally know any Indians. Even many radical Indian activists like Russel Means have condemned and rejected the term “Native American”.

            It’s a similar phenomenon with “Redskins”. A 2004 Annenberg national survey found 90% of Indians weren’t offended by the team’s name. A 2016 national Washington Post poll, taken after all the recent controversy and media shaming of Dan Snyder found……….the exact same thing. 90% of Indians weren’t offended by the Redskins’ name. Many express pride in the name. This whole thing was another firestorm ginned up by leftist activists who don’t represent or indeed really know the people they’re supposedly crusading on behalf of (sound familiar?). After that poll was released the issue mostly evaporated and Bob Costas, burned on gun control and now the naming controversy, skulked back under his rock to wait for a trendy liberal bandwagon he can jump on that might actually go somewhere (it ain’t Kaepernick’s, lol).

            “You side with “poor Jimmy the Greek.””

            No, and I never opposed his firing, liar. I said “poor” because in one interview his entire career was ruined (I’m a compassionate human being) and, while his statements were clumsy and poorly thought out (as I said), it’s not like he was spewing hatred toward blacks. Reggie White said pretty much the same thing as Jimmy the Greek in the late 90s, even explicitly citing him to say he agreed with him.

            Your lame excuse for chickening out of out asking the writers here for their insight into a man whom they know and you’re demonizing was to challenge me to name a single case of a white person around the NFL being called out for “racism” by other whites.

            I gave you four examples. One really was racial bigotry, one was softly prejudiced, and the other two were completely false charges, but the point was that your claim was wrong, indeed the opposite of the truth.

            Since I’ve already repeatedly answered your questions and debunked your insipid arguments, why don’t you direct your attention toward asking the writers here their views on Zimmerman? What have you got to lose?

            “So any Black person who calls you out on your flaws has a learning disability? Way to throw the autistic and Down Syndrome communities under the bus, redneck.”

            Don’t hide behind your skin color, coward. Race has nothing to do with the stupidity you display. And no, my question about whether you have a learning disability was sincere. If you had copped to that I would have changed my tone as I said, having had friends with Down Syndrome and other handicaps over the years (though I had in mind not DS but something more acutely focused on reading per se in your case; and most people with autism I know are significantly more intelligent then you are). But if you don’t then there’s no excuse for your postings.

            “I feel completely vindicated”

            That’s because you’re a moron who’s so cowardly and dishonest that you lie even to yourself.

            PS – “Skip Bayless has always been a standup guy.”

            LOL! That statement would be the dumbest thing a normal person might post. For you it’s barely par.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 3, 2017

            A person WITHOUT a learning disability, mental handicap, or racial hangups would never get deleted from a website such as this, redneck. A person with any one of those problems inevitably will. Which one of us was deleted? That tells us who has a problem.

            This is a post supporting the case for Cookie Gilchrist, someone you would have ripped if you read his history. Colin Kaepernick’s freedom of speech has been supported on this site. Kenny Easley and his HOF speech have been supported on this site. I have never been deleted. You have. You are the only one of us who has had to be shut down. Those are facts.

            You have insulted Blacks, Native Americans, and the mentally disabled in stupid, ignorant attempts to support failed ideas that only an idiot would support. Those are the facts. BTW, what time is your Klan meeting tonight? Can you answer that question, skinhead?

          • Rasputin
            November 3, 2017

            Lying about me to divert attention away from your own, very real bigoted comments is pathetic, cowardly, and doomed to failure, Joseph Wright, when anyone can read our posts above.

            You said you won’t bother asking the writers their opinion of a guy they know whom you’re demonizing because they’re “White” and you feel they’d lie to protect another “White”, and because you feel they’d also lie to protect a fellow sportswriter. Your bigoted comments about white safeties have been quoted all over this thread, as well as your other debunked drivel, moron. You’re not even man enough to admit I just educated your ignorant ass about American Indians and THEIR preferred designation. Your posts also stand as proof that people don’t get “deleted” here for “racist” comments, despite your dishonest bleating otherwise.

            Between us you’re the only one who has ever posted any racially bigoted comments. That’s a fact. I have no idea what Cookie Gilchrist would say today about completely different issues and neither do you, but if he said stupid or bigoted things I’d call him out for it, and if he said good things I’d praise him for it, just as I do anyone else, regardless of skin color. I don’t grade on a racial curve.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 3, 2017

            If I have made all these “racist” comments and you never have (LOL!!!), why were YOU deleted from this site and I never have been? What does that say about this site and those who control it? Obviously, I’ve never offended them but you have.

          • Rasputin
            November 3, 2017

            So your position is that “racism” is the only possible reason for a message board post being deleted, LOL? I’ve had exactly one response deleted (consisting of two posts), and it featured a bunch of legal details of recent and ongoing cases. An overly cautious mod must have deleted it out of concern over legal liability. It wasn’t remotely “racist”. I reformulated the same points with vaguer legal details on the same page and those posts still stand.

            I’ve also quoted several racially bigoted comments by you. You haven’t been able to find one racially bigoted comment by me. That’s the bottom line.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 3, 2017

            No, the bottom line is that you were deleted for a racist post and I never have been.

          • Rasputin
            November 4, 2017

            Liar. Given your own proven dishonesty and racial bigotry, Joseph Wright, you’re certainly shameless to call Rick Gosselin, Clark Judge, and Ron Borges liars.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 4, 2017

            The post by you was inappropriate, racially insensitive, and ignorant. That’s why your dumb post was deleted. Can’t allow posts that show racist tendencies (“They”–murdered Blacks–“are just drops in a bucket”–your ignorant words) and/or an IQ of less than 70 on this board. Posts that show no racism and IQs upward from 140 are taken here. If you get deleted from this site you are an idiot or a racist. I’ve never been deleted, can you say the same?

          • Rasputin
            November 5, 2017

            You’re a liar, Joseph Wright, which is why you misquoted me to a laughable degree to change the meaning. Plus that quote is in a post that still stands. It wasn’t deleted. So you’re a double liar. I listed similar examples of unarmed WHITES and blacks being killed by cops, along with overall stats, to show that the CASES of both are a drop in the bucket of total homicides and police interactions.

            “….to show that neither establishes racial malice let alone some systemic epidemic of carnage, as in both cases they’re a drop in the bucket.” (my actual words there)

            You can disagree with me if you’re so obstinate and stupid that you don’t care about facts, but there’s nothing “racist” about the comment.

            You’ve posted plenty of racist garbage though.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 6, 2017

            If it was “racist garbage,” why wasn’t it deleted like your racist garbage? You have lied about your age, positions on racial double standards, Jimmy the Greek’s firing, Rush Limbaugh, Jack Tatum’s role in Darryl Stingley’s injury, Tatum coming to practice late due to oversleeping, etc., etc.

            I said “Hollywood” Henderson rung Rick Upchurch’s bell in SB XII (which Henderson did) as opposed to Cliff Harris (AFTER Henderson softened that scrub up, it turns out a weak hit by Harris actually did. Or, in your ignorant words “Oh, OK.”) was simply a mistake, not a lie. I have lied about nothing on this website. Was I lying about you putting up racist crap only to be deleted?

            What’s worse, instead of admitting your mistake and racism and apologizing, your response was, “Are you freaking kidding me?” You are a racist, bigoted redneck in denial.

          • Rasputin
            November 6, 2017

            Yawn. It’s funny how every time you follow me somewhere and try to ambush me you only reveal more of your own, very real racial bigotry. Here are some real bigoted comments:

            Joseph Wright: “Harris was a White man and, when it came time to defend Lynn Swann, he couldn’t jump.”

            Joseph Wright: “It’s players like Cliff Harris, Larry Wilson, Dick Anderson and Bill Bates that USC’s Sam Cunningham exploited that gave Paul “Bear” Bryant the vision and validation (to closed-minded, in-denial Confederates) to update his talent pool. The Larry Wilsons and Cliff Harrises were out and the Tatums and Ken Houstons were in.”

            Joseph Wright: “Cliff Harris was on the track team (lol)? What’d he do? Throw the javelin? Run the mile? Poll vault? I KNOW it wasn’t the sprints or the high-jump.”

            Joseph Wright: “Name one White has ever publicly called another White in the NFL out for being a racist. It doesn’t happen. It’s covered up.”

            And everything you just said in your last post is a lie. You haven’t even caught me in a mistake while I’ve had to factually correct you on countless topics. If you were less stupid than you are you’d cut your losses and stop stalking me out of your butthurt vendetta. But like a moth repeatedly ramming a light fixture you probably won’t, will you, bigot?

          • Joseph Wright
            November 7, 2017

            I’m not following you around at all. I go to pop-ups that interest me (e.g., Adrian Peterson naming his Top 5 runners of All-Time–which Emmitt Smith FAILED to make; Kenny Easley’s great HOF induction speech; Social Activist Cookie Gilchrist’s recommendation for the HOF). Of course, being the unobjective, over-the-top Cowboy fan you are, you have something to say. Additionally, when a Black individual who is an activist (Easley, Gilchrist, or Kaepernick) who speaks out or demonstrates against White racism, you’re always there posting your ridiculous defense of White racism.

            Of course, only an ignorant, stupid redneck like you would be deleted from this open-minded, honorable site for racially insensitive, offensive remarks. And compounding the stupidity, instead of apologizing and re-examining yourself, your response is, “Are you freaking kidding me?” It’s people like you that Gilchrist spoke out against. Combine that with his AFL career (which many old NFL loyalists/AFL haters still hold in contempt) and his pro football career is still on the outside of the HOF looking in.

            Later, redneck.

          • Rasputin
            November 7, 2017

            I quote a bunch of racist stuff you actually said, and all you can reply with are lies about me in your own words. I’ll show you how to support a claim. Pay attention, moron:

            Joseph Wright thinks the writers of this site are liars who aren’t even worth asking for their opinion on Paul Zimmerman, whom they know, because they’re white and he assumes white people will lie to protect each other.

            Joseph Wright: “Name one White has ever publicly called another White in the NFL out for being a racist. It doesn’t happen. It’s covered up.” (sic)

            See? I post a claim and I actually back it up with a quote from you that anyone can verify for themselves on this page with a quick F3 search. You were judging the writers here by the color of their skin. Talk about heaving around racial baggage….

            Anyone can visit the “Kenny Easley delivered a knock out speech at his HOF induction” article and see for themselves that my “drop in the bucket” post you’ve been whining about is still there, that you’re lying about it having been deleted, and that there isn’t anything remotely “racist” about it (they can also see me saying nothing but good things about Gilchrist on this page, contrary to another of your countless lies).

            It’s not racist to say that cops are innocent until proven guilty too. I asked for proof of systemic, racially malicious “carnage” by police against blacks, as the gasbag Easley alleged, and you couldn’t provide any.

            Calling Colin Kaepernick out for ignorantly praising communist dictator Fidel Castro (who oppressed blacks among other things) and for his dumb anti-American NFL protests isn’t racist (ask Cuban refugees).

            Posting FBI stats and peer reviewed scientific studies on law enforcement debunking half baked BLM racial propaganda isn’t racist. It’s the “conversation” we’re supposed to be having. Reason in pursuit of truth and REAL justice, not just blind emotion.

            Criticizing someone who happens to be black isn’t racist when the criticism has nothing to do with the person’s race and didn’t even mention skin color, a pitiful card you tried to play here earlier at a moment when you were particularly flustered and desperate. It’s sad that I have to spell this out to a grown man.

            Disagreeing with Joseph Wright isn’t racist. In fact it’s often the opposite, as your racially bigoted comments show. Have a nice day, you cowardly, race baiting buffoon.

            PS – Emmitt Smith makes a lot more experts’ top 5 RB lists than Adrian Peterson ever will, LOL. Peterson was a great player but his analytical skills carry only slightly more weight than his child rearing advice. And Tatum rightly ranks a lot lower on most experts’ safety lists than Cliff Harris.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 7, 2017

            I said you were deleted for racially insensitive, offensive remarks? If this weren’t true, I wouldn’t have said it. You’ve had the dishonor of having been deleted. None of my remarks have ever been. Why is that?

            The gatekeepers of this website understood the humor in the White Men Can’t Jump reference to Cliff Harris’ inability to stop Lynn Swann. An idiot, oversensitive racist like yourself could not. Lat I checked WMCJ is a critically acclaimed movie that did well at the box office and has not been banned. So, I wasn’t deleted.

            Kaepernick’s stand is not about disrespecting the flag, disrespecting the military, or anti-American. It is practicing his freedom of speech and right to peacefully protest. Just like Muhammad Ali (refusing to fight for the U.S. military in Vietnam; U.S.Supreme Court Acquitted him 8-0), Tommie Smith and John Carlos Olympic protest in 1968 (They were ultimately given their medals), or various protest by Dr. Martin Luther King (Who was, like Ali, Anti-Vietnam war).

            Your takes on police brutality against innocent Blacks was deemed too offensive for this site so it was taken down shortly after you racistly posted it. If It wasn’t offensive it wouldn’t have been taken down in the first place. I’m positive the deletion of your ignorant statement would set well with Cookie Gilchrist.

          • Rasputin
            November 8, 2017

            “Kaepernick’s stand is not about disrespecting the flag, disrespecting the military, or anti-American.”

            Colin Kaepernick: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses (blah, blah, blah).” (for source google Mediate, In His Own Words: Colin Kaepernick’s Anthem Protest Was Against The Flag And The Country)

            That’s on top of the fact that he was physically disrespecting the flag and national anthem, all rhetoric and empty caveats from later imitators aside.

            Now that we’ve dispatched that predictably banal lie from you, dimwit, what’s next? Oh yes.

            “I said you were deleted for racially insensitive, offensive remarks? If this weren’t true, I wouldn’t have said it.”

            Unless you were lying, as you just did above and you’ve been caught doing all over this thread. I just said anyone can go to that page and see that my “bucket” post you were whining about is still standing there (not deleted), along with my extensive arguments annihilating BLM propaganda. As I already said and you ignored (because you’re dishonest and unscrupulous; thanks for hanging around long enough to make that abundantly clear to any honest observer reading this), the only thing I ever had deleted was a response posting legal details of ongoing cases, and that must have been why they were removed. When I reposted the same arguments and rhetoric without some of the specific legal details they weren’t deleted.

            There wasn’t anything remotely racist in them or in anything I’ve ever posted, which is why you can’t find a single example of me posting anything racist while I’ve documented several of your racially bigoted quotes.

            “Oversensitive”, lol? Wrong. I told you I wasn’t offended. I’m just amused by the irony of you exhibiting real bigotry so blatantly while falsely smearing countless others with the “racist” label in self righteous fashion. You weren’t just telling a bad “joke” though. Your other comments made clear that you really do dismiss white safeties (among others) in general as garbage because of their skin color. You were trying to make serious HoF arguments, if ineptly.

            Quotes merely exhibiting racial prejudice or bigotry aren’t necessarily deleted any more than lies, stupidity, rude comments, or soft cussing are. Why do you assume otherwise? If those things were deleted then almost all of your posts would be removed and I’d be robbed of a free punching bag for my amusement, LOL.

            PS – The protests you mindlessly equated with Kaepernick’s indulgent displays were from half a century ago (not all of them were equally admirable) and dealt with completely different issues ranging from segregation to Vietnam. Do you support all protests of any kind or is it not a coincidence that you only listed ones by people of a certain skin color? How about ones by kids trying to imitate something they saw on a documentary that they thought looked cool and that infuses them with a sense of importance?

            Back then there was real racial oppression of blacks: actual laws and policies mandating discrimination. There was no need to resort to divining “code words” and “secret racism”, or to spew wild-eyed rhetoric about white cops gleefully and systematically murdering black people.

            MLK opposed this segregation by appealing to Americans’ shared Christian morality, to the moral, legal, and intellectual traditions of Western Civilization (e.g. 1963 Birmingham letter from jail), and by approvingly citing founding American principles like “all men are created equal” (he didn’t let Jefferson being a slave owner at the time stop him from quoting his timeless words or seeing his greatness), attempting to shame the system for not realizing them. He didn’t protest the national anthem.

            By contrast Kaepernick rejects the country and doesn’t realize that he’s disrespecting the very ideals he would need to advance his cause if indeed he had a legitimate cause. His comments have shown that, to the extent he has any sort of ideology, he’s vaguely Marxist, deeply anti-American, and (semi) informed by cynical radical activists who absolutely hate the country and who have thrown in with racial bigots in their fight against it. There isn’t any evidence Kaepernick knows what he’s talking about. Adopted by well off white parents and already a young millionaire who got rich playing a fun kid’s game, certainly any claim that this alleged “oppression” stems from his personal experience rings hollow to say the least.

            Kaepernick stopped standing for the anthem basically because he was pouting over being benched, and because he was influenced by his new girlfriend, Nessa Diab, a radical political/racial/Islamic activist in the music industry.

            After they started dating Kaepernick starting using social media to celebrate people like the Black Panthers, cop killers, and black nationalists like Malcolm X, the Nation of Islam, etc..

            MLK opposed that “black power” stuff.

            “Black supremacy or aggressive black violence is as invested with evil as white supremacy or white violence.” – Martin Luther King

            In fact those guys hated King for supporting racial unity with white Americans, and called him nasty names I won’t repeat here.

            I side with Martin Luther King. I wish you did.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 8, 2017

            ““Oversensitive”, lol? Wrong. I told you I wasn’t offended. I’m just amused by the irony of you exhibiting real bigotry so blatantly while falsely smearing countless others with the “racist” label in self righteous fashion. You weren’t just telling a bad “joke” though. Your other comments made clear that you really do dismiss white safeties (among others) in general as garbage because of their skin color. You were trying to make serious HoF arguments, if ineptly. ”

            If you weren’t offended, then why did you immediately assume that I was attacking Cliff Harris and Larry Wilson solely because they’re White? Sounds like you were race-baiting, like you have been fervently and unsuccessfully doing since your oversensitive reaction to the White Men Can’t Jump joke at Harris’ expense. Maybe I should put it this way so you’ll be perfectly clear, moron: White safeties like Cliff Harris, Larry Wilson, and Charlie Waters WERE garbage in the ’70s and beyond. White safeties like Mike Wagner, Jake Scott, Paul Krause, Gary Fencik, as well as Jack Tatum Ohio State/Raider proteges Tim Fox, Doug Plank, and Vann McElroy were not.

            “PS – The protests you mindlessly equated with Kaepernick’s indulgent displays were from half a century ago (not all of them were equally admirable) and dealt with completely different issues ranging from segregation to Vietnam. Do you support all protests of any kind or is it not a coincidence that you only listed ones by people of a certain skin color?”

            A protest is a protest, dumbass. What difference does it make whether the protest is from 50 years ago or yesterday? The issues and injustices are still present today in various facets of American society. Because of the United States First Amendment, Kaepernick was able to express his feelings in a peaceful and nonviolent manner to oppose the killings of innocent Black people by rogue cops. “Pouting because he was benched.” That’s another Razzie lie. Document that.

            Coincidence that the protesters I mentioned were all Black? Well, what other high-profile White athlete was protesting the racism Blacks were facing in the U.S. during the time Ali refused to go into the U.S. Army (with the blessings of Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Green Bay’s Willie Davis) or when Tommie Smith and John Carlos gave the Black Power salutes at the 1968 Olympics? Is it a coincidence that you list Gosselin, Borges, and Judge for me to ask that question about Zimmerman? Why not ask the opinions of William C. Rhoden, Bryant Gumbel, Roy S. Johnson, James Brown, or Shannon Sharpe. They’re all sports reporters, too. If there are some Whites who I would ask your question about Z, I would go with Joe Namath (who stopped talking with Z because of Z’s obsession with Namath’s preference for his Black teammates), Howard Cosell (if he were still alive; championed the causes of Ali, Smith and Carlos, Curt Flood, and Black QBs), Skip Bayless, or Cris Collinsworth.

            I find it interesting that as you’re about to get into the meat of WHY Kaepernick is protesting, you ignore it completely with “(blah, blah, blah).” That just further eliminates his true reason for the protest: police brutality on innocent Black people. Racist bigots like Donald Trump and you have turned that into a racist, corrupt science. Love the misleading google headline on Kaepernick’s stand. You guys lie and twist everything regarding the modern Black plight in America.

            Was Ali disrespecting the military when he refused to step forward (which he did in support of his religion–big Razzie gasp–Islam)?

            If Smith and Carlos’ actions in the ’68 Olympics were so wrong, why were they awarded their medals years later?

            Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Elvin Hayes, and Wes Unseld refused to represent the U.S. in those same Olympics for the same reasons: Unfair treatment of Blacks in the United States.

            “I side with Martin Luther King.” You are SO full of bull. And what is wrong with the Nation of Islam, Malcolm X and the Black Panthers?

            You have been deleted for offensive comments from this upstanding website, redneck. I have not. Is that a lie?

          • Rasputin
            November 8, 2017

            “White safeties like Cliff Harris, Larry Wilson, and Charlie Waters WERE garbage in the ’70s and beyond.”

            Another great Joseph Wright quote for the portfolio. BTW, it’s amazing how great the Doomsday Defense was in objective, on the field results considering the safety tandem anchoring them was allegedly “garbage”.

            “White safeties like Mike Wagner, Jake Scott, Paul Krause, Gary Fencik, as well as Jack Tatum Ohio State/Raider proteges Tim Fox, Doug Plank, and Vann McElroy were not.”

            Gee, you made some exceptions. Do you also have some white friends? Doesn’t change the fact that you’re the one who brought up race and who racialized this issue by attacking people for their skin color (bigotry defined). You lumped together lots of wildly different safeties from different eras to dismiss as “garbage” (earlier you also tossed in names like Dick Anderson and Bill Bates), skin color being the only thing they had in common. You say that’s not the only factor in you attacking them. Great. I never said it was your only factor (you particularly hate the Cowboys). But race shouldn’t be a factor AT ALL.

            Your statements have also been consistently wrong, as my comments higher in the thread show. For example, despite your ignorant assumptions, Cliff Harris was an athletic collegiate track sprinter and posted an excellent vertical in a scouting test. In this era he’d probably be drafted high. He was also rightly judged as the 1970s best NFL free safety. Even if you quibble with that judgment, seems like a long way from “garbage”. SS Charlie Waters still holds the career playoff interception record (since tied by Lott and a couple of others). Is “garbage” really the most apt adjective, moron?

          • Joseph Wright
            November 9, 2017

            I have been touting Mike Wagner, Jake Scott, Paul Krause, Gary Fencik, as well as Jack Tatum Ohio State/Raider proteges Tim Fox, Doug Plank, and Vann McElroy on other threads and you dismiss them. All were far superior to Cliff Harris.

            “Doesn’t change the fact that you’re the one who brought up race and who racialized this issue by attacking people for their skin color (bigotry defined).” You’re the one who brought up race, Razzie, after I made a humorous connection to the movie, White Men Can’t Jump, to crack on Harris’ pitiful attempt to cover Lynn Swann. You say you weren’t offended (lie), then go WAY over the top with race-baiting as you say I disparage him because he’s White. One person can’t find a joke funny and offensive at the same time. Get some thicker, more objective skin. Develop a since of humor while your at it. And look in the mirror if you want to see a racist.

            “You lumped together lots of wildly different safeties from different eras to dismiss as “garbage” (earlier you also tossed in names like Dick Anderson and Bill Bates), skin color being the only thing they had in common. You say that’s not the only factor in you attacking them. Great. I never said it was your only factor.” This after you wrote: “Your other comments made clear that you really do dismiss white safeties (among others) in general as garbage because of their skin color.” Now you’re backpeddling, saying you never said that was my only factor. Lie. As for Anderson and Bates, they also were slow, unathletic and wore number 40. There was more to their similarities than skin color, idiot. “Lots of safeties?” Anderson, Larry Wilson, and Bill Bates are “lots?” I guess it’s a relative term.

            ” Cliff Harris was an athletic collegiate track sprinter and posted an excellent vertical in a scouting test. In this era he’d probably be drafted high. He was also rightly judged as the 1970s best NFL free safety. Even if you quibble with that judgment, seems like a long way from “garbage”. Quite likely, given the times, he was “sprinting” against segregated (all-White) competition, his vertical obviously didn’t impress anyone enough to EVEN draft him (Warren Moon, by contrast, wasn’t even invited to the scouting combines–slick racist move to make him go undrafted. It is possible to be slick and ignorant, Razzie. See Richard Nixon), and if he couldn’t even get drafted in the ’70s don’t even clown yourself into thinking Harris would “probably be drafted high (LMFAO!; LOL!; ROFLMFAO!!!)” in today’s era. He was judged the “best free safety of the 70s” by Zimmerman. I’m sure Harris would have gotten votes from Lester Maddox and Jimmy the Greek, too.

            ” (S)afety tandem anchoring them,” ? GTFOH! The anchor of that defense, saving Harris and Waters’ slow, unathletic asses was the front four. Great job by Bob Lilly, Jethro Pugh, Larry Cole, Harvey Martin, Randy White, and Too Tall Jones making a garbage safety tandem look good and getting them undeserved All-Pro and Pro Bowl honors in the process. Any free safety who plays for a decade and comes up with fewer than 30 INTs for a career is pathetic. Translation: garbage. Of course, readers, Razzie will add in Harris playoff INTs to get him to 30 and beyond. LOL!!!

            Cookie Gilchrist would have run roughshod over Harris. Oh, wait. Actually, Harris would have looked for a place to hide. Just like he did with Larry Csonka and Earl Campbell. LOL!!!

          • Rasputin
            November 8, 2017

            “And what is wrong with the Nation of Islam, Malcolm X and the Black Panthers?”

            You mean apart from the fact that they’re RACIAL NATIONALISTS, you bigoted halfwit? The Black Panthers were also involved in numerous murders. One former female member, Assata Shakur, whom Kaepernick is a big fan of and has celebrated on social media and in T-shirts, helped lead a BP terrorist splinter group called the Black Liberation Army that waged “war” against the United States in the 1970s through bank robberies, killings, and other crimes.

            Shakur was finally caught and convicted of murdering New Jersey state trooper Werner Foerster. Foerster had escaped the communist oppression of his native East Germany and immigrated to the United States years earlier, deciding to serve his new country by becoming a policeman. He was 34 and responding to back up a colleague at a traffic stop when Shakur and her two comrades, motivated by an ideological mix of racialism and communism, shot him to death. He left behind a wife and two young children.

            Shakur was broken out of prison by BLA members armed with guns and dynamite who took guards hostage. She fled to Cuba and was given asylum because she was an enemy of the USA, not because Castro loved black people (he threw his own black agitators in prison), where she remains to this day churning out anti-American propaganda.

            Kaepernick recently donated $25,000 to a far left activist group named in Shakur’s honor called Assata’s Daughters. A few months ago he also retweeted a “happy birthday” message to the convicted cop killer and racial terrorist.

            On the Nation of Islam, I’ll quote from the Anti Defamation League: “The Nation of Islam (NOI), the oldest Black nationalist organization in the U.S., has maintained a consistent record of anti-Semitism and racism since its founding in the 1930s.”

            The NOI advocates racial separatism and even wants its own black nation carved out from the US. NOI doctrine claims that blacks are the most authentic human beings, and that whites are “devils” created by an evil scientist who are programmed to lie and mistreat dark skinned people. Current leader Louis Farrakhan has continued the movement’s tradition of insane conspiracy theory spewing, often blaming what he calls “Satanic Jews” for various things. Farrakhan has been a vocal champion of Colin Kaepernick.

            Malcolm X, an ex con (robbery), was a prominent NOI leader who fully embraced the group’s racist doctrine and agenda.

            Malcolm X on race: “Thoughtful white people know they are inferior to Black people.”

            Malcolm X on the crash of Air France Flight 007, where the dead included over 100 white passengers from Atlanta: “I would like to announce a very beautiful thing that has happened… Somebody came and told me that he really had answered our prayers in France. He dropped an airplane out of the sky with over 120 white people on it because the Muslims believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. We call on our God. He gets rid of 120 of them in one whop. But thanks to God, or Jehovah or Allah, we will continue to pray and we hope that every day another plane falls out of the sky.” (the NOI crowd he was addressing responded with cheers, laughter, and applause)

            Malcolm X on JFK’s assassination: “Chickens coming home to roost never did make me sad; they’ve always made me glad.”

            Malcolm X on integration: “It won’t work. It doesn’t solve the problem. Do you know what integration really means? It means intermarriage. That’s the real point behind it. You can’t have it without intermarriage. And that would result in disintegration of both races. The Negro is better off by himself, so he can develop his character and his culture in accord with his own nature….The only real answer is for our people to go back to Africa. But that will come much later. Right now, we need immediate relief from suffering and oppression….If the Government does not let us go back to Africa, then we should have a black nation here.”

            Malcolm, a racial separatist, had little interest in the civil rights movement and called Martin Luther King a “chump” along with worse epithets. He eventually had a falling out with other NOI leadership and left the group. He did become less racist and renounced some of his former views then but that period only lasted about a year before he was assassinated by three Nation of Islam members (Joseph Wright: “And what is wrong with the Nation of Islam…?”). Malcolm X is romanticized by leftist radicals and racial bigots today for his stint with the NOI.

            Your above question may end up in the Hall of Fame for bigoted dumbassery, perhaps on a plaque next to the bust of Colin Kaepernick.

            The short answer to your question is “a lot”.

            “A protest is a protest, dumbass. What difference does it make whether the protest is from 50 years ago or yesterday? The issues and injustices are still present today in various facets of American society.”

            No, moron. Jim Crow ended a long time ago. The only racial discrimination that’s even allowed today is in favor of blacks through affirmative action. Saying the issues today are the same as half a century ago is one of your more asinine lies.

            “Because of the United States First Amendment, Kaepernick was able to express his feelings in a peaceful and nonviolent manner to oppose the killings of innocent Black people by rogue cops.”

            No one should brag about having a “peaceful” protest. That’s a very low bar. Even the modern KKK holds “peaceful and nonviolent” demonstrations, so by your logic is praiseworthy. And I’ve thoroughly debunked the premise that there’s some huge epidemic of innocent black people being wrongly killed by “rogue cops”, let alone for racial reasons. Even if that was happening to some degree, it wouldn’t mean that the national anthem should be hijacked to advance a niche political agenda any more than it should be for abortion (60 million killed innocent babies since Roe v Wade in 1973), healthcare, or countless other important political causes people feel passionately about. That would be the end of any semblance of national unity and it’s unlikely any specific cause would get much attention in the dissonant cacophony that gradually ensued anyway.

            And you’re wrong, chump. The NFL has the power to determine whether Kaepernick can protest as an employee or not. This has nothing to do with the First Amendment, except that it ensures that Kaepernick is currently free to sit for the anthem all he wants on his couch. The Constitution also ensures that fans have the right to stop watching and attending games as their own, far more effective protest against the NFL’s anti-American double standard continues to be felt.

            I note you lack the class to acknowledge that I schooled you with Kaepernick’s own words after you falsely claimed his protest wasn’t about the flag or the country.

            Kaepernick also dismissed the US flag as “just a piece of cloth”. Leaving aside the fact that it would be equally true to say Kaepernick is just a mass of protoplasm, that “piece of cloth” is the last thing many families have of their loved ones who fell in the line of duty in military or police service.

            “Was Ali disrespecting the military when he refused to step forward (which he did in support of his religion–big Razzie gasp–Islam)?”

            Yes. Of course he was. I don’t blame the guy for not wanting to go to Vietnam, but that doesn’t make him a hero. An actual conscientious objector hero was Desmond Doss, the Christian who served as a medic rather than a combatant (big Joey gasp) during WW2 and whose life saving exploits were featured in the recent movie Hacksaw Ridge.

            Being an objector per se wasn’t disrespectful to the military; it was all the anti-American/anti-military garbage Ali couched his objection in. You unwittingly hint on one aspect of the story that’s under told though. Ali wasn’t a pacifist. While liberal media outlets endlessly replay the “I ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong” line, he also said things like this: “I’m not trying to dodge the draft. We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or The Messenger. We don’t take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers.” And this: “My enemy is the white people, not Viet Cong or Chinese or Japanese.” He was a NOI member during much of his career, recruited by Malcolm X, and embraced everything they stood for. He was hard core enough to end his friendship with Malcolm X near the end of the latter’s life when Malcolm X converted to more mainstream Islam and became less racist.

            I’m not a huge fan of Mohammad Ali. I don’t like his bigotry. I don’t like how he disrespected Joe Frazier and other boxers. His much celebrated refusal to join the military had no impact on the civil rights movement whatsoever, despite them often being conflated by syrupy left wing revisionist portrayals. It didn’t even happen until 3 years after the civil rights act passed, and it had no positive impact on subsequent race relations (“sticking it to the man!!!” doesn’t count).

            Ali did change. In the mid 1970s, like Malcolm before him, he left the NOI, converted to mainstream Sunni Islam, and became less racist. He even endorsed Ronald Reagan in 1984. He did some various good stuff in that phase of his life, and would still make the occasional dumb comment I’d disagree with. He was a lot more likable than he was in the 1960s. But unfortunately that’s the era that gets romanticized.

            I’m more a fan of Joe Louis. He voluntarily enlisted during WW2. He didn’t even wait to be drafted. He was always patriotic despite black people being even more oppressed then than they would be by the 1960s. Louis experienced racial discrimination first hand but saw the good in the country and knew there were even worse evils and threats abroad.

            Or, as he succinctly put it: “Lots of things wrong with America, but Hitler ain’t going to fix them.”

            There were worse evils in the 1960s too. Communism was and remains every bit as evil as Nazism. If Kaepernick knew anything about the real world he’d know that Fidel Castro wasn’t going to fix whatever’s wrong with America, nor would Stalin, Khrushchev, Pol Pot, Mengistu Haile Mariam, or Ho Chi Minh. Or the Nation of Islam or the Black Panthers or Black Lives Matter, for that matter.

            “If Smith and Carlos’ actions in the ’68 Olympics were so wrong, why were they awarded their medals years later?”

            Why were they banned at the time? Is your premise that the establishment is the arbiter of what’s right and wrong? What kind of dumbass, poorly thought out, self defeating point are you even trying to make?

            ““Pouting because he was benched.” That’s another Razzie lie. Document that.”

            Well he was a starter through 2015 and apparently always stood until 2016, when he was relegated to back up status, so its a reasonable inference based on correlation. But I mostly discussed the influence of his radical nutjob girlfriend he started dating in 2015, which you completely ignored in your misquote of me. For more insight into her, she posted a racist attack on Ray Lewis and the Ravens owner that torpedoed the deal when Lewis and the Ravens were actually trying to sign Kaepernick.

            “Is it a coincidence that you list Gosselin, Borges, and Judge for me to ask that question about Zimmerman? Why not ask the opinions of William C. Rhoden, Bryant Gumbel, Roy S. Johnson, James Brown, or Shannon Sharpe. They’re all sports reporters, too.”

            No, I listed the first three because they’re the writers at this site we’re on. Holy crap you’re stupid. But I’d be interested if you asked the others too. Better than following me around repeating your inane crap like I’m Zimmerman’s personal spokesman or something.

            “If there are some Whites who I would ask your question about Z,……”

            There you go again viewing things through a racial prism. And why do you capitalize “White” and “Black”? It’s creepy. Never mind. I don’t even care.

            “….I would go with Joe Namath (who stopped talking with Z because of Z’s obsession with Namath’s preference for his Black teammates), Howard Cosell (if he were still alive; championed the causes of Ali, Smith and Carlos, Curt Flood, and Black QBs), Skip Bayless, or Cris Collinsworth.”

            A real winning lineup there, LOL! The dead guy, Cossell, was criticized by some “civil rights” activists himself for calling a Redskins WR a “little monkey”. He refused calls to apologize, saying he didn’t mean anything racial by it and used those words to apply to people of other colors too. So it would be interesting to see you two chat about your view of Zimmerman.

            “I find it interesting that as you’re about to get into the meat of WHY Kaepernick is protesting you ignore it completely with “(blah, blah, blah).”

            Because the point there was that you wrong to say he wasn’t disrespecting the flag or country. He went out of his way to say he was avoiding respecting the flag and country, even using the words “flag” and “country”. The reason is beside the point.

            “That just further eliminates his true reason for the protest: police brutality on innocent Black people. Racist bigots like Donald Trump and you have turned that into a racist, corrupt science.”

            You mean “science” like the recent study by Harvard professor Roland G. Fryer, a black liberal, who found police AREN’T any more likely to shoot blacks than whites, and who admitted that was “the most surprising result of my career”? (google “No racial bias in police shootings, study by Harvard professor shows”)

            So much for Kaepernick’s “cause”.

            I’m obviously no bigot and I doubt Trump is either. As Trump’s friend Floyd Mayweather observed, no one was really smearing Trump as a “racist” until he started running for president. We’ve established that you’re a bigot though, Joseph Wright.

            “You have been deleted for offensive comments from this upstanding website, redneck. I have not. Is that a lie?”

            Yes. You can’t even cite the alleged “offensive” comment and you keep repeating that BS anyway, you lying moron. You need a new act.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 9, 2017

            “You have been deleted for offensive comments from this upstanding website, redneck. I have not. Is that a lie?”–Me

            “Yes. You can’t even cite the alleged “offensive” comment and you keep repeating that BS anyway, you lying moron.”–Rasputin

            OF COURSE I can’t cite your offensively insensitive comment, redneck. It was deleted! None of my comments, on the other hand, have EVER been deleted from this website. Only an idiot can get deleted from this website. And only an idiot would respond to being punished by insensitive, racist comments with “Are you freaking kidding me!?!?” LOL!!!

            “Assata Shakur was finally caught and convicted of murdering New Jersey state trooper Werner Foerster.” Is that right? Check this out: “Shakur’s infamy began after the May 2, 1973, killing of a New Jersey state trooper. In her letter, as well as in her autobiography, she recounts what happened that night, when she, along with Zayd Malik Shakur and Sundiata Acoli, were stopped on the New Jersey Turnpike for having a faulty tail light. One trooper drew his gun and told them to put their hands in the air, which Assata did. Moments later a shootout ensued, ending with the deaths of Zayd and state trooper Werner Foerster. Assata was also shot while her hands were up. Though the forensic evidence backed up her account, the state was able to convict her, and in 1977 she was sentenced to life plus thirty-three years.” So, the forensic evidence backed up her story but she was convicted anyway. Sounds like a setup to me.

            You’re against racial double-standards? Really?

            “Malcolm X, an ex con (robbery), was a prominent NOI leader who fully embraced the group’s racist doctrine and agenda.” Interesting analysis but earlier, you wrote, “(Dr. Martin Luther King) didn’t let Jefferson being a slave owner at the time stop him from quoting his timeless words or seeing his greatness.” One was a robber, the other was a slave owner, racist, and a rapist (see Sally Hemmings). So you’ll embrace the “greatness” of the White individual (Jefferson) but see no greatness in the Black individual (X/Shabazz)? Sorry to see you lying about being against racial double standards.

            “Malcolm X on race: ‘Thoughtful white people know they are inferior to Black people.'” Maybe those White bigots who were running NFL teams prior to the 1999 draft felt they were being thoughtful when they didn’t draft Warren Moon, Jimmy Jones, Sandy Stephens, Homer Jordan,Karl Douglas, Kevin Murray and countless others as QBs. They only let a few in (Marlin Briscoe, James Harris, Joe Gilliam, Vince Evans, Doug Williams, Randall Cunningham) via the draft over the previous 70+ years).

            “Malcolm X on JFK’s assassination: ‘Chickens coming home to roost never did make me sad; they’ve always made me glad.'” What Malcolm failed to mention was those chickens were from Dallas. Great job of protecting John F. Kennedy, city of Dallas. He was ONLY the President of the United States.

            More Malcolm insights from you: “He did become less racist and renounced some of his former views then but that period only lasted about a year (there’s that Razzie ‘Drop in a bucket’ ideology again) before he was assassinated by three Nation of Islam members (Joseph Wright: ‘And what is wrong with the Nation of Islam…?”).” Oh, really? So should we denounce all Whites in America? Only Whites have assassinated U.S. Presidents. I’m just following YOUR racist stereotypical logic. BTW, Malcolm X changed his views after his pilgramage to Mecca. Oh, that’s right. That’s a (Razzie gasp) Muslim thing.

            “Jim Crow ended a long time ago. The only racial discrimination that’s even allowed today is in favor of blacks through affirmative action. Saying the issues today are the same as half a century ago is one of your more asinine lies.” So because Jim Crow was abolished, there is virtually no racism in the U.S. That ranks right up there with Mike Ditka’s idotic “There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of” comment.

            Let’s just look at the U.S. since 1964–AFTER the Civil Rights Act was signed: Cookie Gilchrist and other AFL All-Stars are treated poorly because they are Black; Warren Moon goes undrafted by the NFL after a successful senior year (PAC-8 Player of the Year; Rose Bowl MVP) in college; Art Shell promoted to head coach in NFL, a quarter century after CRA signed, 70 years after NFL is formed; Barack Obama elected U.S. President, 44 years after CRA is signed, 143 years after the North kicked the South’s ass. As for affirmative action, it was put in place to help Blacks with skills, aptitude, and talent jobs that were denied to them because of skin color. There is only one unqualified Black who benifitted from affirmative action, and he now sits on the Supreme Court.

            ““If Smith and Carlos’ actions in the ’68 Olympics were so wrong, why were they awarded their medals years later?”–Me
            “Why were they banned at the time?”–Rasputin
            Because, as Julian Bond said, “Avery Brundage (IOC President) was a tremendous racist.”

            “Yes. Of course (Muhammad Ali) was (disrespecting the military). I don’t blame the guy for not wanting to go to Vietnam, but that doesn’t make him a hero. An actual conscientious objector hero was Desmond Doss, the Christian who served as a medic rather than a combatant (big Joey gasp) during WW2 and whose life saving exploits were featured in the recent movie Hacksaw Ridge.”

            Several problems with this clutted nonsense. First off, you can’t compare Vietnam with WWI. Two completely different wars and issues. Secondly, Doss was still serving so there was no protest. Thirdly, Ali was a hero because he was willing to go to jail and risk the prime of his career (which he lost) to stand up on principle. That is admirable and heroic, period.

            Additionally, “He was a NOI member during much of his career, recruited by Malcolm X, and embraced everything they stood for.” If he did, why weren’t Angelo Dundee and Ferdie Pacheco (and several other Whites) fired from his staff immediately? Why did he establish a great relationship with Howard Cosell? Ali was never a racist (and neither was Cosell, by the way). Show me one quote where he said, “I hate White people.” You can’t.

            “(“sticking it to the man!!!” doesn’t count).” Obviously it hit a tender nerve with you, redneck. So I guess Malcolm, Ali, and the Panthers (Ken Stabler was friends with Huey Newton BTW) accomplished their objective.

            Two more Razzie lies, readers and I’m out.

            “No one should brag about having a ‘peaceful’ protest. That’s a very low bar.” This from a man who claimed “I side with Martin Luther King.” Yeah, right. You are SO full of bull. Just like that “poster of Warren Moon.” Big lies.

            “And why do you capitalize “White” and “Black”? It’s creepy. Never mind. I don’t even care.” If you don’t even care, why did you bring it up in the first place, you dumbass, lying skinhead. Ebony Magazine, Jet magazine, Essence Magazine, and the 1973 and ’74 editions of “Who’s Who in Football” have done the same thing. They are treated as proper nouns and adjectives. Creeps you out, huh?

            Still undeleted while you were stupid enough to get deleted. LOL!!!

          • Rasputin
            November 10, 2017

            Wow. Joseph Wright, you just defended and apparently fully embrace the Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, and Malcolm X ACROSS THE BOARD even after everything I posted about their rabid racial bigotry and heinous crimes. Before now you had only revealed some racial prejudice and hangups, but you may be even more of a bigot than I realized.

            Are you a black nationalist, Joseph Wright?

            “So, the forensic evidence backed up her story but she was convicted anyway. Sounds like a setup to me.”

            You mean only the two Black Panther comrades in the car with her, whom she admits were shooting, were guilty, lol? Setting aside the fact that you copy pasted a blog (without sourcing it) by a halfwit activist, we’re discussing the Black Panthers in general, not just one person. Kaepernick wears T-Shirts glorifying the Black Panthers and has started camps honoring them that ostensibly teach young black kids how to deal with cops (Awesome. What could possibly go wrong with that? And I’m sure it’s not getting an early start brainwashing them into believing they’re perpetual victims of a “racist” society that they can blame their problems on or anything), and you asked what’s wrong with supporting the Black Panthers.

            You must agree with their professed racist and communist doctrines and not be bothered by the numerous murders, robberies, drug dealing, extortion rackets, embezzlement, and other crimes many members were convicted of or credibly implicated in. Multiple times they murdered their own members when they became liabilities. Women were victims on more than one occasion. Huey Newton was always more of a career criminal than even an ideologue.

            In one episode when Newton was awaiting trial for murdering a 17 year old prostitute (he allegedly lost his temper because she didn’t show him proper “respect”, knocked her down, and shot her in the neck with the exit wound coming out of of her face; she died in a coma 3 months later), the key witness against Newton, a prostitute using the name “Crystal Gray”, was the target of an assassination attempt by three Panthers who attacked the wrong house (it was the address given to the court for Gray and secured by Newton’s defense team but she wasn’t staying there at the time). The woman who lived there returned fire, killing one Panther and sending the other two fleeing. A wounded attacker and long time Panther enforcer, Flores Forbes, fled to Las Vegas and was treated by a Panther paramedic quietly.

            That paramedic, Nelson Malloy, was later taken out into the desert by two more Panthers with orders to tie up loose ends, shot in the back, and buried alive in a shallow grave. He was found by passers by and rescued, paralyzed but alive, and identified his attackers.

            The message had been sent though. A terrified Gray refused to testify and Newton got off. That wasn’t the only time a witness against Huey Newton would get cold feet. Ultimately, however, the Black Panther Party collapsed under the weight of its own criminality in the 1970s. Forbes turned himself in after hiding out for several years and was convicted. Years later he wrote a tell all insider’s account of the brutal daily operations of the Black Panthers’ criminal operations called Will You Die with Me?: My Life and the Black Panther Party. And Eldridge Cleaver admitted to nefarious actions in a 1986 interview with Reason.

            Eldridge Cleaver: “We used to lie about it, because the information was a weapon also. We would go out and ambush cops, but if we got caught we would blame it on them and claim innocence. I did that personally in the case I was involved in….

            Yes. We went after the cops that night, but when we got caught we said they came after us. We always did that. When you talk about the legacy of the ’60s, that’s one legacy. That’s what I try to address, because it helped to distort the image of the police, but I’ve come to the point where I realize that our police department is necessary.”

            I know you’re down with that lying strategy, little Joey.

            As for “Shakur”, she’s a convicted cop killer. The surviving, wounded officer says she fired the first shot that set off the shootout after his colleague found weapons and ammunition in the car, and that she wounded him and kept firing. She didn’t personally shoot Foerster, but was convicted of murder under a law that equated “aiding and abetting” with the murder regardless of who actually fired the lethal bullet. On the stand she also couldn’t explain why she had a bunch of ammunition and a fake ID on her.

            Even if you believe she held her hands up throughout the gunfight while her two partners were trading shots with the cops, that’s hardly grounds for CELEBRATING someone. Remember she was a notorious LEADER in the Black Liberation Army, a group that claimed to be at war with the US, and was implicated in numerous robberies, assaults, and killings over the years. She was prosecuted for this particular crime because she happened to be wounded and caught literally red handed.

            Washington Post citing FBI info on the BLA: “From 1970 to 1984, the BLA was responsible for four bombings, four hijackings and 32 violent armed confrontations in the United States. Sixteen of those involved confrontations with law enforcement officers who were killed”

            The Black Panthers were a thoroughly evil group and it’s disgusting to see clueless young people today sometimes be manipulated by dishonest ideologues into romanticizing them.

            “Malcolm X on race: ‘Thoughtful white people know they are inferior to Black people.’” Maybe those White bigots who were running NFL teams prior to the 1999 draft felt they were being thoughtful when they didn’t draft…(blah, blah, blah)”

            How is that even a rational response? Are you trying to make a point or just sputtering? You don’t HAVE to defend Malcolm X, Joey. You can just acknowledge HIS racial bigotry. You could even say it’s a bad thing. If you believe that.

            ““Malcolm X on JFK’s assassination: ‘Chickens coming home to roost never did make me sad; they’ve always made me glad.’” What Malcolm failed to mention was those chickens were from Dallas. Great job of protecting John F. Kennedy, city of Dallas. He was ONLY the President of the United States.”

            Oh wow. Even I feel sorry for you after that weak diversion attempt. Still a fan of Malcolm X, huh? Where’s your response to him celebrating the plane crash because most of the passengers were white, and praying and calling for such a plane crash every day?

            “So you’ll embrace the “greatness” of the White individual (Jefferson) but see no greatness in the Black individual (X/Shabazz)?”

            Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and helped found America. The ideals he eloquently espoused changed the world for the better. He was a good president who doubled the size of the nation with the Louisiana Purchase. He founded a prestigious university and did countless other things.

            What “greatness” did Malcolm X contribute? That “Black Power” crap inspired the Black Panthers who went on to commit countless crimes, and his continuing legacy of bigotry, hatred, and black chauvinism is responsible for much of today’s racial strife.

            “”….before he was assassinated by three Nation of Islam members (Joseph Wright: ‘And what is wrong with the Nation of Islam…?”).” Oh, really? So should we denounce all Whites in America? Only Whites have assassinated U.S. Presidents. I’m just following YOUR racist stereotypical logic.”

            I’m talking about a GROUP (NOI) with an ideology, you bigoted clown, not a skin color. Did you also miss that stuff about them believing white people are subhuman “devils”, calling Jews “Satanic”, opposing interracial marriage, and favoring racial separation?

            Were you totally ignorant about them before or do you really see nothing wrong with them? So far you haven’t even said you disagree with any of the racist garbage from Malcolm X or the rest of the NOI, let alone condemn it as wrong.

            “BTW, Malcolm X changed his views after his pilgramage to Mecca. Oh, that’s right. That’s a (Razzie gasp) Muslim thing.”

            Are you a Muslim, Wright? I ask because you keep pretending I’ve been bashing Islam when I’ve said next to nothing about it. But I did already mention Malcolm converted to more mainstream Islam and softened his racist views shortly before being killed, making your comment here even more stupid.

            You’re so thin skinned you get upset about stuff I didn’t even say, lol.

            “So because Jim Crow was abolished, there is virtually no racism in the U.S.”

            I didn’t say that, moron. I’ve documented racism by you and your heroes all over this page. I said only a liar or an ignoramus would claim the racial issues today are the same as they were over half a century ago.

            “There is only one unqualified Black who benifitted from affirmative action, and he now sits on the Supreme Court.”

            Jayson Blair sits on the Supreme Court, LMFAO? He’s hardly the only one either (though the brilliant Clarence Thomas isn’t one). But my point wasn’t about whether you feel affirmative action is a good thing or not. I’m sure many segregationists felt every white person who held a job or school slot they might not have otherwise deserved it too (which wasn’t very many, blacks being a small minority of the population; most whites would have had those spots anyway, putting a lie to the childishly stupid “white privilege” myth; most whites didn’t benefit at all from segregation; in fact it negatively impacted society overall). I simply pointed out that it exists as official policies and is racial discrimination by definition.

            “143 years after the North kicked the South’s ass.”

            Not an ass kicking when you lose more than the other guy does, result aside. Do you even know that about 360,000 union troops died in the war that led to the abolition of slavery? You don’t sound a bit solemn or respectful about that enormous sacrifice.

            Like the coward you are, you completely ignored my question here (apart from the almost rhetorical first line):

            Joseph Wright: “If Smith and Carlos’ actions in the ’68 Olympics were so wrong, why were they awarded their medals years later?”

            Me: “Why were they banned at the time? Is your premise that the establishment is the arbiter of what’s right and wrong? What kind of dumbass, poorly thought out, self defeating point are you even trying to make?”

            Still waiting for an answer.

            Me: “Yes. Of course (Muhammad Ali) was (disrespecting the military). I don’t blame the guy for not wanting to go to Vietnam, but that doesn’t make him a hero. An actual conscientious objector hero was Desmond Doss, the Christian who served as a medic rather than a combatant (big Joey gasp) during WW2 and whose life saving exploits were featured in the recent movie Hacksaw Ridge.”

            Joseph Wright: “Several problems with this clutted nonsense. First off, you can’t compare Vietnam with WWI. Two completely different wars and issues. Secondly, Doss was still serving so there was no protest.”

            Your response was the cluttered nonsense. Assuming you meant WW2 and not WW1, educating you on the differences and similarities between these various wars would be off topic. I simply gave an example of a conscientious objector, with real moral principles, who was actually heroic and who still served his country. You also cut off the part of my response where I directly answered your question about disrespecting the military. It wasn’t that Ali was an objector, it was that he couched his objection in anti-American/anti-military rhetoric. So yes, whether you agree with him or not it was disrespectful.

            “Thirdly, Ali was a hero because he was willing to go to jail and risk the prime of his career (which he lost) to stand up on principle.”

            So was Hitler. Or maybe Ali just didn’t want to get shot.

            “That is admirable and heroic, period.”

            Courageous maybe (if you take him at face value), but “admirable” depends on the cause. Remember, Ali wasn’t a pacifist. He refused to serve in the US military, but he might have joined an Islamic holy war.

            Ali: “I’m not trying to dodge the draft. We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or The Messenger. We don’t take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers.”

            Still admirable and heroic?

            “Ali was never a racist (and neither was Cosell, by the way). Show me one quote where he said, “I hate White people.” You can’t.”

            Ali: “My enemy is the white people, not Viet Cong or Chinese or Japanese.”

            LOL! That’s close enough. And guys like Cosell and Dundee helped him professionally. Ali wasn’t above using people. He never spoke to Malcolm X again though after Malcolm left the NOI.

            ““(“sticking it to the man!!!” doesn’t count).” Obviously it hit a tender nerve with you, redneck.”

            Nope, I wasn’t even around then, Sparky. I’m the history guy, remember? Instead of striking any nerve, it’s more like the syrupy BS from dishonest modern leftist sources is eye roll inducing.

            “So I guess Malcolm, Ali, and the Panthers….accomplished their objective.”

            Opposing integration, creating a black nation, and overthrowing the US government? Nope. Big failure on all fronts.

            “(Ken Stabler was friends with Huey Newton BTW)”

            Hitler got along famously with Tojo. So what? And yeah, Joey, I’m sure Newton was great friends with Ken Stabler. Newton had lots of white friends, LOL. No chance at all that it was just the occasional clueless, useful idiot celebrity (*cough*Jane Fonda*cough*) wanting to be seen making an appearance with a fellow celebrity that it felt dangerous and exciting to be superficially associated with in hopes of elevating one’s status as often happened with mobsters in clubs, or to be seen helping a cause they didn’t fully understand. I’m sure Newton had lots of white buddies whom he’d go fishing with or sit around privately at home having deep talks with all night. Yes, sir. Oh wait…

            “This from a man who claimed “I side with Martin Luther King.” Yeah, right. You are SO full of bull. Just like that “poster of Warren Moon.” Big lies.”

            I haven’t told a single lie (obvious sarcasm like in my Huey Newton comment above doesn’t count). You’re the only liar here, Wright.

            “Ebony Magazine, Jet magazine, Essence Magazine, and the 1973 and ’74 editions of “Who’s Who in Football” have done the same thing. They are treated as proper nouns and adjectives.”

            Apart from black chauvinist magazines and a couple of alleged 1970s WWIF editions, virtually every other publication and institution puts “white” and “black” in lowercase. Capitalizing them indicates you’re placing too much importance on skin color as the defining aspect of one’s identity.

            “OF COURSE I can’t cite your offensively insensitive comment, redneck. It was deleted!”

            So you didn’t read that post? How do you know there was anything “offensive” in it, let alone “racist”? I already told you it was likely just deleted because it included various mundane legal details of ongoing cases. It wasn’t remotely “racist”. You certainly haven’t been able to quote any racist comments in my other posts either, all of which are still standing. Oh, little Joey, you’re constantly tripping yourself up in your own web of lies and stupidity.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 11, 2017

            “…Ali was a hero because he was willing to go to jail and risk the prime of his career (which he lost) to stand up on principle.”–Me

            “So was Hitler (a hero). Or maybe Ali just didn’t want to get shot.”–Rasputin

            So, readers, Razzie just compared Muhammad Ali to Hitler. One man (Ali) had nothing against Jewish people and murdered no one while the other (Hitler) hated them and had over 6 million of them killed. What an absolute idiotic racist Rasputin is. Yeah, redneck, you BETTER hide behind that lying troll alias name when you make an asinine statement like that.

            Fixated with Hitler, huh? Did Ali and Huey Newton ever start major world wars?

            “So because Jim Crow was abolished, there is virtually no racism in the U.S.”–Me

            “I didn’t say that, moron. I’ve documented racism by you and your heroes all over this page. I said only a liar or an ignoramus would claim the racial issues today are the same as they were over half a century ago.”–Rasputin

            All right, mental dwarf, let me put it so that your preschool intellect can understand: So because Jim Crow was abolished, there is virtually no racism done by Whites against other non-Whites in the U.S.? Quit dodging the question, redneck coward.

            “Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and helped found America. The ideals he eloquently espoused changed the world for the better. He was a good president who doubled the size of the nation with the Louisiana Purchase (or the land that was stolen from Mexico by White invaders). He founded a prestigious university and did countless other things.”–Rasputin

            Countless other things like practice racism, hypocrisy, slave owning, and raping women. Never served time behind bars or apologized for any of them. Malcolm X served his time and made amends for his wrongdoings and his autobiography is required reading on many university and college campuses. Even as members of the Nation of Islam, Malcolm X and Ali were invited guest speakers at Harvard, Yale, USC, UCLA, UC Berkeley, Stanford, Temple, Penn, and Penn State Universities, and several others.

            The closest thing to serving time on this website is to be deleted. The intelligent thing to do when that happens is to own up to it and apologize. Which you have not done for your insensitive, offensive, racially charged and (thank you, Talk of Fame Sports Network) deleted statement.

            If you want to see a racist, Razzie, look in the mirror…or see which one of us has ever been deleted from this website. Spoiler Alert: It’s not me. LOL!!!

          • Rasputin
            November 12, 2017

            Me: “Are you a black nationalist, Joseph Wright?”

            Joseph Wright: *crickets*

            You dodged the question, coward. We’ve established you’re a bigot, but how rabid of a racial bigot are you? Are you a racial nationalist like your Black Panther and Nation of Islam heroes?

            It’s sad that you weren’t man enough to even address all the historical information on Huey Newton and other BP criminality I educated you with. You’re welcome.

            ““…Ali was a hero because he was willing to go to jail and risk the prime of his career (which he lost) to stand up on principle.”–Me
            “So was Hitler (a hero). Or maybe Ali just didn’t want to get shot.”–Rasputin”

            No, liar, that’s a BS parenthetical insertion. I said even Hitler was willing to go to jail for his cause, which was the lame basis for you calling Ali a “hero”. YOU’RE saying Hitler’s a hero if that’s all one has to do to be heroic in your book. Neither men were heroic in my view, which was clear given my line that you dishonestly cut out:

            Me: “Courageous maybe (if you take him at face value), but “admirable” depends on the cause.”

            “Did Ali and Huey Newton ever start major world wars?”

            No, neither of them was as bad as Hitler, LOL. That’s a very low bar though and doesn’t make them heroes, moron.

            “So because Jim Crow was abolished, there is virtually no racism done by Whites against other non-Whites in the U.S.?”

            Of course there’s some in a country of over 300 million, but the epicenter of bigotry in the 21st Century US isn’t in the white demographic. Anti-white bigotry is far more pervasive, especially at the institutional level (media/entertainment, academic, and even corporate) where it’s increasingly openly encouraged. Certainly racial discrimination as policy is pro-black, not anti-black.

            It’s telling that in the old days light-skinned blacks would sometimes try to pass themselves off as white for better opportunities. Now it’s reversed, with whites trying to pass themselves off as black or other minorities to land plush jobs (e.g. Rachel Dolezal, Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren).

            Even if one disagrees with that, it’s unreasonable and moronic to insist that the racial issues are the same today as they were over half a century ago. That’s just factually untrue.

            “Malcolm X served his time and made amends for his wrongdoings and his autobiography is required reading on many university and college campuses. Even as members of the Nation of Islam, Malcolm X and Ali were invited guest speakers at Harvard, Yale, USC, UCLA, UC Berkeley, Stanford, Temple, Penn, and Penn State Universities, and several others.”

            I asked for great accomplishments on the order of Jefferson writing the Declaration of Independence and doubling the size of the nation, you pathetic loser.

            When did Malcolm X serve time for his racial bigotry and separatist views, moron? Or for openly applauding and praying for the deaths of vast numbers of innocent people just because they happened to be white? Hateful views are legal in a free country (they aren’t even deleted on sites like this one, as your posts demonstrate, contrary to you lying about “deletion”). I was mostly blasting him for that, not his robbery career early on. What “amends” did he make for that? And what actions were so great beyond mere “amends” that they would vault him into “hero” status? Which Malcolm do you even admire, the backpedaling one of his final year who was murdered by his former NOI friends (whom you also admire) or the famous racial nationalist who’s romanticized by bigoted simpletons and America haters today?

            Malcolm X was an evil man. But he’s hardly the worst person glorified on college campuses, where Che Guevara shirts are still common (Che was a communist thug and mass murderer who helped destroy Cuba). Actual 1960s terrorists like communist Weather Underground scumbags Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, whose group waged open war against the United States through a bombing campaign that targeted US soldiers and others, killing people in the process, and who never repented, later became college professors themselves for years. Wouldn’t shock me if the lunatic traitor Chelsea Manning ends up as a college professor if he gets in before the university bubble pops (may be the next big one to go, unless you count Hollywood’s slow implosion).

            Hating America enhances your status on the modern campus, so black racial terrorists being honored there is absolutely no surprise (plus speakers are typically invited by some student group; and there was certainly a black power presence among students even back then). We’re talking about a university system that actively opposes mainstream conservatives or extremely accomplished moderates like Condoleezza Rice even showing up to give a speech (sometimes rioting when the Young Republicans make such invitations), but are happy to host and provide a platform for guys like former Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who held a big cartoon contest mocking the Jewish Holocaust and took his turn leading Iran’s regular “Death to America! Death to Israel!” mass chants, and whose regime brutally suppresses freedom and sponsors international terrorism.

            Oh, and Jefferson wasn’t a “rapist”. Even if the Hemings story is true, and that has NOT been proven (contrary to false reports, the DNA test was inconclusive), the typical story passed down from the Hemings family is that it was a consensual romance and she returned his affections. The “rape” argument is in the technical sense based on her being a slave, and the word is used by hysterical ideological activists trying to exploit the issue to push an agenda with sensationalistic headlines. Stop getting your history from like-minded activists who are almost as ignorant as you are.

            “Which you have not done for your insensitive, offensive, racially charged and (thank you, Talk of Fame Sports Network) deleted statement.”

            I made no such statement, liar, so you must REALLY be thin-skinned to be offended by something I didn’t even say, LOL. In fact you can’t quote a single bigoted statement I’ve ever made.

            You’ve certainly made a lot of them though. So now answer the clear, straightforward question as to your views on black nationalism like the doctrine espoused by the NOI and Black Panthers. That way we can start to precisely pin down just how raging of a bigot you are, Joseph Wright.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 13, 2017

            What’s your definition of “Black Nationalist?” You White folks seem to change the meaning all the time. You of all people are the most guilty criminal when it comes to constantly moving the yardsticks (e.g, Ali’s “White people are my enemy” quote is “close enough” to “I hate White people” while Paul Zimmerman calling for a team to take a talented record-setting passer who is Black and “put him in the weight room and make him a running back” is not racist and bigoted. According to your redneck, racist ass that suggestion is “defensible”).

            You ignorantly compare Ali to Hitler. Muhammad Ali was friends with Howard Cosell, Billy Crystal, Barry Frank, and Bob Arum, among others who were Jewish. Adolf Hitler spearheaded the deaths of six million of them. Stupid, libelous, slanderous parallel. Of course, readers, this coward hides behind the troll “Rasputin” to spew his racists thoughts and lies. Cowardly skinhead.

            “Ali wasn’t above using people (associations with Cosell, Angelo Dundee). How did Ali “use” them? Always looking for (and failing to find) the worst in Black people then lump us all together, huh, bigot? So, did Jerry Jones use Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, Deion Sanders, and Charles Haley?

            White privilege is a ‘myth” Mr. White Man? Your stupid argument that Whites would make up the majority of the U.S. workplace because they are the majority population doesn’t fly. If that’s the case, how do you explain the athletic population of NFL? Or the NBA? Check out your girl Megyn Kelly on that rare occasion when a broken clock is right twice a day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QKUjBRCYMg.
            Jim Brown reflected on Jane Fonda’s travel to Vietnam and how she continued to have an uninterrupted, successful acting career: “If Jane was a Black actress, no way she pulls that off.” That is White privilege.

            As for the asinine comment “Or maybe Ali just didn’t want to get shot.” Who would want to get shot in a war they didn’t believe in. By contrast, George W. Bush served in a cush position during the Vietnam War, saw no gunfire, and STILL went AWOL. And STILL got an honorable discharge! The man you voted for as U.S. President, Trump, was not a conscientious objector and avoided the draft and Vietnam war altogether…Maybe Trump just didn’t want to get shot. They both enjoyed their White privilege there.

            Your lies and hypocrisy are the foundations of your life. You say I would work well with Jimmy the Greek, you talk about “Poor Jimmy the Greek” getting fired (then cite Reggie White in a clumsy, failed attempt to exonerate him), and then backpeddle and say you had no problem with the firing. Pitiful liar you are, skinhead.

            You say Rush Limbaugh shouldn’t have been fired for his racist comments about Donovan McNabb, then criticize ESPN for hiring him. Another lie.

            No, I never condoned Malcolm X’s glee over the 120 Whites who died in the plane crash. However, it’s not like HE killed them. Like Hitler murdered millions of people. Or like the Klan has killed hundreds of Blacks. Or like rogue cops have killed hundreds of Black people. You emphasize the Whites killed in this plane crash while you call Blacks who are murdered at the hands of Whites “drops in a bucket.” Also the murders of Medgar Evers and Dr. King are listed by you as tragedies “from a bygone era.” The plane crash was from the same era but you emphasize that–because they were White people. And you wonder why a group calls themselves Black Lives Matter. “Drops in a bucket” and “a bygone era.” Obviously, Black lives don’t matter to you. That makes you a typical White racist redneck, Razzie.

            Speaking of someone who felt Black lives didn’t matter…Richard Nixon (who was caught on tape using the n-word several times) was described by you thusly: “…the expert bipartisan consensus is that he was one of the most intelligent and knowledgeable presidents ever.”

            “Bipartisan consensus?” You mean the White racist redneck bigots in AND out of the South? LMFAO!!!

            “White people are my enemy.” That statement by Ali is nowhere near to close to showing he is a racist or bigot (“I don’t like his bigotry”–Rasputin). Ali said, “I don’t hate nobody and I ain’t lynched nobody. We Muslims don’t hate the White man. It’s like we don’t hate a tiger. But we know that a tiger’s nature is not compatible with people’s nature since they love to eat people. So we don’t want to live with tigers. It’s the same with the White man. The White race attacks Black people. They don’t ask what’s your religion, what’s your belief? They just start whupping heads.” That’s not racism. That’s common since fostered by survival instinct.

            “Malcolm X was an evil man.” Amazing. The man never killed anyone, serve his time in prison for robbery, come out completely changed, never performed a crime again, never even incited a riot. Thomas Jefferson was a racist, owned slaves , and raped Sally Hemings. “Consentual?” Is that how you White racists lie to yourselves to sooth your bigoted consciences (of which you all have none)? She was his slave, he was her master. What was she going to say? “No?” SMH. Jefferson was the evil one. The laws of the racist South excused his evil behavior.

            The White Men Can’t Jump joke really offended you, huh? You lied and said you weren’t offended, then went over the top and played the race card.

            Years ago on ESPN Primetime, Robin Roberts humorously commented on a highlight of Dan Marino. His momentum carried him out of bounds and he unsuccessfully tried to hop over a bench. “How many time do we have to say this? ‘White men can’t jump!’ You could clearly hear Tom Jackson AND Chris Berman hysterically laughing. Roberts was not disciplined.

            Magic Johnson in his 1992 autobiography: “White men can’t jump? (Larry Bird) was living proof.”

            My joke on Cliff Harris’ pitiful attempt to cover Lynn Swann has ripped your thin skin so thoroughly that you can’t let it go. So, are Roberts, and Magic racists, also? If they are not, then neither am I. I would sue you for libel but you’re using a fake name like the coward you are. You are nothing but a racist troll and you STILL got deleted for racist, offensive comments and you still lie and say you were never deleted.
            Readers, let me show you what a meltdown and lie looks like:
            “Are you freaking kidding me? I post thoughtful, fact-based replies to both of David O’Brien’s idiotic ad hominem posts above and MY posts get deleted?!?!”– The racist troll known as…Rasputin.
            LOL!!! LMFAO!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!! Hint: The replies were not thoughtful and HARDLY fact-based. Only offensive. Result: The redneck was deleted. LOL!!!

          • Rasputin
            November 14, 2017

            “What’s your definition of “Black Nationalist?” You White folks seem to change the meaning all the time.”

            What’s your definition? Do you subscribe to Nation of Islam doctrine, for example? If not, where do you disagree with them and why? And why does a precise definition matter when someone’s asking you if you’re a “black nationalist”, LOL? Shouldn’t that be an easy question to answer? Wouldn’t you expect a clear, straightforward answer if someone was asked if he’s a “white nationalist”?

            “Your stupid argument that Whites would make up the majority of the U.S. workplace because they are the majority population doesn’t fly.”

            LOL! Do you think most whites would have been unemployed if not for segregation, moron? How do you explain the number of jobs held vastly outnumbering the entire black population then? How could they be stealing those jobs from blacks? Math clearly isn’t your forte. And segregation ended over half a century ago to boot. “Privilege”, almost by definition, applies to rare benefits not enjoyed by most people as the default norm. “White privilege” is a stupid, bigoted phrase employed for political manipulation. If privilege is defined as one race enjoying institutional discrimination in its favor, then we’ve been living in an era of net black privilege for years anyway, not that I think going around talking about “black privilege” would be much better. People should be judged as individuals, not as members of a racial group.

            “If that’s the case, how do you explain the athletic population of NFL? Or the NBA?”

            LOL! 40 times are even less relevant to most areas of society than they should be to the NFL. Plus those are tiny job pools for a few elite athletes. I said MOST whites never benefited from segregation, not that none did. However, the willingness to hire so many blacks in those leagues certainly undermines baseless claims of general anti-black discrimination in society today. If anything you’re just supporting my larger point.

            “Jim Brown reflected on Jane Fonda’s travel to Vietnam and how she continued to have an uninterrupted, successful acting career: “If Jane was a Black actress, no way she pulls that off.” That is White privilege.”

            No, that’s leftist privilege. Big difference. And she did take a big hit, though she unfortunately continues to have a career, as did Ali after his draft refusal, btw (remind me, what color was he again?). A combination of black privilege and leftist privilege explains why Beyonce can get away with giving a black power salute at the Super Bowl halftime show. If Taylor Swift held up a fist and shouted “white power”, or even just sported a t-shirt saying “white people are awesome”, it would be quite a different reaction, LOL. It also explains why dimwitted, hateful nutjobs like Jemele Hill and Michael Wilbon are still employed by ESPN.

            “No, I never condoned Malcolm X’s glee over the 120 Whites who died in the plane crash. However, it’s not like HE killed them. Like Hitler murdered millions of people.”

            While I’m pleased that you haven’t “condoned” his glee, it’s also true that you haven’t expressed an ounce of disgust over it. In fact instead of condemning his remarks you just made a pitiful bid to mitigate them by pointing out that he wasn’t a mass murderer like Hitler. True. As I said earlier, Malcolm X wasn’t as bad as Hitler. That’s hardly where the “hero” bar should be set though, is it? You never did post any great accomplishments justifying “hero” status for him. Arguing that he wasn’t as bad as Hitler is weak sauce. I can just see you as a defense attorney now….”Your honor, my client may have committed armed robbery, strangled a cat, and raped a woman, but at least he’s NOT HITLER. Can’t we let this go?”

            “Also the murders of Medgar Evers and Dr. King are listed by you as tragedies “from a bygone era.” The plane crash was from the same era but you emphasize that–because they were White people.”

            No, because you’re specifically glorifying Malcolm X, moron. Try to keep up.

            “You emphasize the Whites killed in this plane crash while you call Blacks who are murdered at the hands of Whites “drops in a bucket.””

            Liar. I said the cases of whites AND blacks killed by cops, let alone under questionable circumstances, are a statistical drop in the bucket out of total interactions with police and total homicides for each race (in fact it’s a bigger statistical drop for whites, since cop shootings make up a higher percentage of total whites who are killed). It’s a long sentence, but do I need to post the whole thing here? You can read it for yourself since it’s still on the Kenny Easley page, undeleted, contrary to your lies. By your own logic, why do you feel it wasn’t deleted given your position that “racist” posts are always deleted (and apparently are the only ones deleted)? Talk about moving goalposts….

            “Or like rogue cops have killed hundreds of Black people.”

            Over what time period? Proof?

            “Or like the Klan has killed hundreds of Blacks.”

            A long time ago. The Klan hasn’t been a threat for years. Far more whites have been murdered by blacks than vice versa for the past several decades. I guess that only matters if one believes that All Lives Matter though.

            ““White people are my enemy.” That statement by Ali is nowhere near to close to showing he is a racist or bigot (“I don’t like his bigotry”–Rasputin).”

            LOL! Then the word “racist” has no meaning. It certainly doesn’t mean “one who disagrees with Joseph Wright”, which is how YOU’VE been using it. Heck, just putting “Joseph Wright” in the dictionary next to the word “racist” would come closer to the truth.

            “Ali said, “I don’t hate nobody and I ain’t lynched nobody. We Muslims don’t hate the White man. It’s like we don’t hate a tiger. But we know that a tiger’s nature is not compatible with people’s nature since they love to eat people. So we don’t want to live with tigers. It’s the same with the White man. The White race attacks Black people. They don’t ask what’s your religion, what’s your belief? They just start whupping heads.” That’s not racism. That’s common since fostered by survival instinct.”

            That’s even worse. He compared white people to animals and claimed they were INHERENTLY his enemy due to their “nature”, while revealing his support for keeping the races separate in that quote. Thanks for supporting my position by posting that. That’s the kind of thing I’m trying to find out if you agree with. BTW, Ali was probably really confused when he finally met some white Muslims and learned that Islam isn’t a race.

            “Thomas Jefferson was a racist, owned slaves , and raped Sally Hemings. “Consentual?” Is that how you White racists lie to yourselves to sooth your bigoted consciences (of which you all have none)?”

            You mean “White racists” like Hemings’ own black descendants who are the ones who told the story?

            “You say Rush Limbaugh shouldn’t have been fired for his racist comments about Donovan McNabb, then criticize ESPN for hiring him. Another lie.”

            Yes, you told another lie. I never criticized ESPN for hiring Rush, and his comments weren’t racist.

            The rest of your post is an utter meltdown by a panicking coward. Flustered, you jumbled a slew of complete lies about me and others (even Bush, lol) together into several meandering paragraphs, mixing in some blind insults. Anyone reading this can see that from the posts above, especially your various lies about what I’ve said and your projection (e.g. “moving the yardsticks”). Your desperate drivel merits no further response here as it’s just a lame diversion attempt from the pertinent, direct question about your racial views. This, however, will make a nice addition to the Joseph Wright Hall of Shame:

            “You White folks seem to change the meaning all the time.” – Joseph Wright.

            Awesome. Clearly Illustrates your racial hangups. By contrast you still never have found a single bigoted thing I’ve ever said.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 14, 2017

            Good to know I’m not a racist, given the pass (that’s not needed, BTW) you gave to Robin Roberts and Magic Johnson for their White Men Can’t Jump jokes. Dan Marino, Larry Bird, and Cliff Harris are White men who couldn’t jump. Robin, Magic, and I were just clowning around at the deficiency they shared. However, there is ONE major difference: Marino and Bird are Hall of Famers, Harris is NOT! Score another one for Wright over Razzie. Wright over Razzie. Hmmm. I guess I just dunked on you…LOL!!!

            “(Ali) compared White people to animals and claimed they were INHERENTLY his enemy due to their “nature”, while revealing his support for keeping the races separate in that quote.” One, he was talking about the inherent nature of tigers. Two, as long as White racists behave toward Blacks as they have been (behaving racistly, violently, discriminatinatory) why would any Black individual want to stay amongst people that are mistreating them? That’s not separatism, that’s common sense. And, Ali never thought or said Islam is a race, dumbass. He knew there were White Muslims across the world. There was never any confusion, redneck.

            “As I said earlier, Malcolm X wasn’t as bad as Hitler. That’s hardly where the “hero” bar should be set though, is it? You never did post any great accomplishments justifying “hero” status for him. Arguing that he wasn’t as bad as Hitler is weak sauce. I can just see you as a defense attorney now….’Your honor, my client may have committed armed robbery, strangled a cat, and raped a woman, but at least he’s NOT HITLER. Can’t we let this go?'” Malcolm X was incarcerated for robbery. Then you lump him in with Michael Vick (animal cruelty) and Thomas Jefferson (rapist). Within your meltdown, we see another instance of racial double-standards (translation–White privilege): Malcolm X and Vick served their time in prison for the crimes they committed (both came out to be model, law-abiding citizens), Jefferson didn’t. And why did he own slaves? Thought you said you didn’t believe in racial double-standards? Thanks for the assist, liar. Chess player my ass. LOL!!!

            “Thomas Jefferson was a racist, owned slaves , and raped Sally Hemings. “Consentual?” Is that how you White racists lie to yourselves to soothe your bigoted consciences (of which you all have none)?”–Me

            “You mean “White racists” like Hemings’ own black descendants who are the ones who told the story?”–Rasputin.

            Another deceitful, cowardly way to duck the fact that Jefferson was a racist, a slave owner, and raped Sally Hemings. I suspect that Hemings Black descendants were saying the “relationship” was “consentual” to stay in good standing and cash in on the Jefferson estate. THAT would be “using” someone. Speaking of which…

            Love the way you dodged the whole lie you made up about Ali “using” Howard Cosell and Angelo Dundee when I asked about Cowboy owner Jerry Jones “using” Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, Deion Sanders, and Charles Haley. You cowardly skinhead.

            You said “Poor Jimmy the Greek lost his NFL analyst job in 1988” and in another post you say you had no problem with his firing, then go back and try to defend him by using Raggie White’s wretched speech in Wisconsin as validation. SMH. More lies, huh, Razzie?

            “Rush Limbaugh even made it clear that such media concern was irrational and unnecessary since there were already other good black QBs…” No, Razzie, lying again. It was pointed out TO RUSH that his thoughts were irrational, unnecessary, and, yes, racist because the Black QB resistence was virtually a non-issue. McNabb was never hyped to the extreme, as you say. He was hardly held up as a revolutionary figure (Marlin Briscoe, James Harris, Joe Gilliam, Doug Williams, Warren Moon, and Randall Cunningham laid the groundwork that opened the floodgates).

            Limbaugh could have said he was overrated and left it at that. McNabb’s skin color should never have been made an issue by Rush.There have been loads of overrated White QBs throughtout NFL history (Johnny Manzel, Bob Griese, Jim McMahon, Jeff George, etc.) and no one has said anything about them. McNabb wasn’t overrated. If the Eagles of that era don’t have Donovan, they don’t win, let alone make the playoffs. It’s that simple.

            “The rest of your post is an utter meltdown by a panicking coward. Flustered, you jumbled a slew of complete lies about me and others (even Bush, lol)” George W. Bush had a cush position (White privilege) and STILL went AWOL while “serving” in the U.S. Military while Trump ducked the draft altogether (without any ramifications–White privilege) to avoid combat during the Vietnam war. Ali courageously took a stand and dealt with the consequences as a conscientious objector. Want to see a meltdown?:

            “Are you freaking kidding me? I post thoughtful, fact-based replies to both of David O’Brien’s idiotic ad hominem posts above and MY posts get deleted?!?!”–Rasputin. LOL!!! LMFAO!!! ROFLMAO!!! I LOVE IT!!!

            Everytime I whip your ass, you revert to the deversionary (and very unsuccessful) “Meltdown” garbage. You’re the only one losing it, not me. You got deleted for stupid stuff. I never have been. Why is that, redneck?

          • Rasputin
            November 14, 2017

            “Good to know I’m not a racist, given the pass (that’s not needed, BTW) you gave to Robin Roberts and Magic Johnson for their White Men Can’t Jump jokes.”

            I never gave such a pass, nor are you only guilty of a mildly racial joke, as we’ve established. You’re a serious bigot with all sorts of racial hangups. What needs to be established now is if you’re a full blown black nationalist like your Nation of Islam “heroes” you’ve been praising.

            Stop being such a coward and answer the straightforward question, Joseph Wright. What are you afraid of?

            ““(Ali) compared White people to animals and claimed they were INHERENTLY his enemy due to their “nature”, while revealing his support for keeping the races separate in that quote.” One, he was talking about the inherent nature of tigers.”

            And white people, moron. Try to keep up. He said white people are slaves to their inherent nature, which was why he wanted them kept separate from his own race.

            You still haven’t even said whether you agree with that or not, coward. At least be man enough to own up to your racial views.

            “Two, as long as White racists behave toward Blacks as they have been (behaving racistly, violently, discriminatinatory) why would any Black individual want to stay amongst people that are mistreating them?”

            Who? Racists who are mistreating black people or “white people”? Those are two different sets of people. Ali at the time, in accordance with half baked NOI doctrine, was all about race. People were condemned, praised, or treated by skin color in HIS book. HE was a racial bigot.

            “That’s not separatism, that’s common sense.”

            Saying you want the races kept separate is the definition of separatism, moron. Ali was David Duke with a different skin color. Period.

            “And, Ali never thought or said Islam is a race, dumbass.”

            He logically implied it with comments like, “We Muslims don’t hate the White man. It’s like we don’t hate a tiger….So we don’t want to live with tigers. It’s the same with the White man.”

            “He knew there were White Muslims across the world. There was never any confusion, redneck.”

            Ali was a generally ignorant man for much of his life. Do you think he realized that most Muslims were Arabs, and that there was a much stronger strain of anti-black sentiment in the Arab world than in white America at the time? I guarantee you a lot of these early NOI pukes didn’t know anything about that or they would have picked a different religion through which to manifest their own bigotry. To them Islam was basically a black religion. Since white Americans were trying to help stop the black slave trade still being pushed by Muslims in Africa as late as the 20th Century, the irony is thick. More recent decades have seen acts of ethnic cleansing by Arabs against blacks. There’s still a lot of hostility there.

            “Dan Marino, Larry Bird, and Cliff Harris are White men who couldn’t jump.”

            Harris had a 39 inch vertical, you bigoted moron. Even Bird could slam dunk it when he wanted to.

            “However, there is ONE major difference: Marino and Bird are Hall of Famers, Harris is NOT! Score another one for Wright over Razzie. Wright over Razzie. Hmmm. I guess I just dunked on you…LOL!!!”

            Not yet, but he is first decade 1970s FS and should have been in the HoF a long time ago. And unlike Marino (and Jack Tatum), Harris won championships. I just posterized your ass, LOL.

            “I suspect that Hemings Black descendants were saying the “relationship” was “consentual” to stay in good standing and cash in on the Jefferson estate.”

            One would think “rape” allegations would be a better foundation for a lawsuit than the tale of consensual romance they told, but regardless it wasn’t “white racists” who have been the source for that story. You saying otherwise is just yet more racial bigotry from you.

            “Love the way you dodged the whole lie you made up about Ali “using” Howard Cosell and Angelo Dundee when I asked about Cowboy owner Jerry Jones “using” Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, Deion Sanders, and Charles Haley.”

            I mercifully skipped over your idiotic comment. What point are you even trying to make here? I know you aren’t used to doing this, but try thinking it through before clarifying whatever you were trying to say.

            “You said “Poor Jimmy the Greek lost his NFL analyst job in 1988” and in another post you say you had no problem with his firing, then go back and try to defend him by using Raggie White’s wretched speech in Wisconsin as validation. SMH. More lies, huh, Razzie?”

            You haven’t named one thing a lied about, halfwit.

            “It was pointed out TO RUSH that his thoughts were irrational, unnecessary, and, yes, racist because the Black QB resistence was virtually a non-issue. McNabb was never hyped to the extreme, as you say. He was hardly held up as a revolutionary figure”

            I disagree. So did many others, including in the Slate article I cited by a liberal sportswriter (google Slate Rush Limbaugh was right Donovan McNabb isn’t a great quarterback, and the media do overrate him because he is black.).

            I remember the huge McNabb hype at the time. There was a lot of excitement among political/racial activists who were ostensibly sports journalists that with his run heavy style he was going to revolutionize the league and change the QB position to black across the board. This is the sort of thing that was passing for major “social justice” concern by the end of the 1990s, people trying to pretend that such issues are important on the same order as say fighting Jim Crow segregation in the past, because they wanted to feel as important as previous generations of crusaders.

            It was all idiotic, irrational garbage and Rush was probably right that it at least fueled McNabb’s undeniable overrating for much of his career. Liberal journalists had an emotional investment in him that they didn’t even have in other black QBs with more orthodox pocket passing styles.

            “Limbaugh could have said he was overrated and left it at that. McNabb’s skin color should never have been made an issue by Rush.”

            Limbaugh is a courageous guy who’s not afraid to make provocative points if true, and he was hired to provide social insights in addition to pure on the field commentary. He’s not going to shy away from a point like that for PC reasons. He’s also not the one who introduced race into McNabb discussions. Pro-McNabb journalists did at first, and later McNabb himself played the race card more than once.

            “There have been loads of overrated White QBs throughtout NFL history”

            Rush Limbaugh would agree with you. So what? There are often reasons a particular player is overrated. In McNabb’s case he thought media social concern played a role, and at least some reporters have admitted he was right.

            “(Johnny Manzel, Bob Griese, Jim McMahon, Jeff George, etc.) and no one has said anything about them.”

            LOL! People bashed those QBs all the time, halfwit. Remember Ryan Leaf, lol? I don’t know that any of those guys you list were praised in a sustained way or went to as many undeserved Pro Bowls as McNabb did though. Even a great QB like Tony Romo caught all sorts of unfair crap from the media for most of his career, and went to FEWER Pro Bowls than he deserved to.

            “McNabb wasn’t overrated. If the Eagles of that era don’t have Donovan, they don’t win, let alone make the playoffs. It’s that simple.”

            McNabb’s completion percentage was below the NFL average for his era despite him basically just running a dump off passing offense. Carson Wentz is probably already better than McNabb in his second year. I’d probably give Randall Cunningham the edge over McNabb too since he at least gave more offensive punch. McNabb was extremely overrated.

            With a better QB complementing that great 2000s defense they win a Super Bowl. It’s that simple.

            “George W. Bush had a cush position (White privilege) and STILL went AWOL while “serving” in the U.S.”

            That was debunked, Dan Rather, LOL.

            “Military while Trump ducked the draft altogether (without any ramifications–White privilege) to avoid combat during the Vietnam war.”

            You mean like Ali? Oh gee, he couldn’t box for three years (lots of white people were in jail for refusing to serve) but he got to run around free, the courts eventually dismissed the case against him for technicality reasons rather than merit (for a supposedly evil country we sure have a lot of due process) and he went on to have an extremely celebrated career and life (black privilege; leftist privilege).

            You never answered the question I posed in response to the laughable meltdown in your previous post, little Joey.

            Why is my “drop in the bucket” post you’ve been lying about still there? If it’s “racist” (it’s not; it’s the opposite of racist), and if racist posts all get deleted and are the only posts that get deleted (wrong again on both counts) then why hasn’t it been deleted? Explain that, you cowardly liar.

            But mostly answer if you’re a black nationalist. That’s the key question in this discussion.

            PS – You couldn’t dunk a donut, chump, LMFAO. I’ve kicked your ass all over this site.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 15, 2017

            One by One…

            “I never gave such a pass, nor are you only guilty of a mildly racial joke…”

            1) Only someone with thin skin would go over the top calling someone a racist after “a mildly racist joke.” Additionally, only a thin-skinned bigot would say “Malcolm X was an evil man,” and compare Muhammad Ali to Hitler (Dr. Martin Luther King was all willing to go to jail for his beliefs and convictions. Rasputin: “Yeah. So was Hitler!”) SMH.

            2) What is your definition of a “Black Nationalist?” A Black individual who wants the culture to build their own economy (banks, businesses, etc.) and communities (churches, schools, medical facilities, ethnic organizations) to become a vital part of the overall economy? Like the Semetic and Asian people have done. Are THEY called separatists? Or a Black individual who wants to discriminate, mistreat, and eliminate anyone who is non-Black? I’ve heard and read the definition both ways. It’s hardly a straightforward question.

            3) Ali was comparing the nature of tigers to White racists. Keep up, redneck. Not White people as a whole. “Ali loved anything walking. If they were decent, Ali loved all people.”–Jim Brown

            4) “Two, as long as White racists behave toward Blacks as they have been (behaving racistly, violently, discriminatinatory) why would any Black individual want to stay amongst people that are mistreating them?”–Me

            “Who? Racists who are mistreating black people or ‘white people’?”–Rasputin.

            What part of “as long as White racists behave toward Blacks as they have been (behaving racistly, violently, discriminatinatory)” don’t you understand, skin-headed redneck?

            5) “Saying you want the races kept separate is the definition of separatism, moron. Ali was David Duke with a different skin color. Period.” You’re fighting a losing cause, idiot. No person with common sense will ever buy into your lie that Ali was equivalent to Hitler or your hero David Duke (The man who personally thanked Trump for defending the White Nationalists and White Supremacists–“a lot of good people”– in Charlottesville). Self-preservation in the face of danger is not separatism, and self-defense in the face of physical and armed assault is not advocating violence. When Blacks move into White Neighborhoods in bunches, the Whites usually disappear. Even when the Blacks are not bringing any trouble. THAT is separation.

            6) “Ali was a generally ignorant man for much of his life.”–Rasputin
            He was a Baptist for the first 20 years of his life and an Orthodox Muslim for the last 42. He was in the Nation of Islam for 12 years. Generally (= more than half), much (= a large part). Given that “much” is a relative term (great advantage for any liar whose expert in moving the yardsticks). If, for the sake of an argument, being in the Nation of Islam is “ignorant,” 12 out of 74 years of life is hardly “generally,” and not many people would say 12 is “much” of 74. And I’M the one who sucks at math?

            7) “a much stronger strain of anti-black sentiment in the Arab world than in White America at the time?” That depends on one’s perspective. How do you, as a card-carrying White racist, measure that?

            8) “…but (Cliff Harris) is first decade 1970s FS and should have been in the HoF a long time ago. And unlike Marino (and Jack Tatum), Harris won championships. I just posterized your ass, LOL. ”

            Nope. Harris was carried to those by Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Bob Lilly, Harvey Martin and Randy White. Additionally, Marino was up against the ’84 49ers secondary, not the weak-ass Harris anchored crew. Bradshaw, Swann, and Stallworth ran wild threw Cliff Harris. Imaging what Marino and the Marks Bros. would have done had they met in a Super Bowl.

            9) “I suspect that Hemings Black descendants were saying the “relationship” was “consentual” to stay in good standing and cash in on the Jefferson estate.”

            One would think “rape” allegations would be a better foundation for a lawsuit than the tale of consensual romance they told…” This is even more stupid and asinine than even the Ali/ Hitler comparison or the “Malcolm X was an evil man comment. Several problems that you sweep under the rug as deceptive liars who call themselves “historians” do. A lawsuit is impossible because:
            A) Jefferson’s racist ass dropped dead centuries ago
            B) Something called “statute of limitations.”
            C) He was well within the law of the South to rape Hemings. Whites could do ANYTHING to Blacks physically without fear of incarceration. A White man raping a Black woman or girl was nothing according to Southern law.
            Epic fail on your part.

            10) You accused Ali of “using” Howard Cosell and Angelo Dundee to dismiss their relationships in a desperate attempt to confirm your lie that Ali was a racist and a bigot. So I posed the question about whether or not Jerry Jones “used” Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, Deion Sanders, and Charles Haley. You didn’t respond. I’m sure Jones would your attempt to back him up in his relationships with those players. Some fan you are.

            11) “… I don’t know that any of those guys (Manziel, Griese, McMahon, Jeff George) you list were praised in a sustained way or went to as many undeserved Pro Bowls as McNabb did though.” Manziel was over-hyped, drafted in the first round, and was a flop in the NFL. Griese went to many undeserved Pro Bowls, Is inaccurately credited with the perfect season of ’72, and was given Ken Stabler’s spot in the HOF in ’90. McMahon was drafted in the first round and was all up in our faces from ’85-’88, all the while being called great, when he was in fact being spoonfed victories and an impressive record by Walter Payton and the Bears’ Defense. Jeff George was the first pick in the draft and had a generally disappointing career. McNabb was hardly overrated. He was one of the best QBs of his era. Limbaugh is a racist gas bag.

            12) And, of course, you’ve been deleted from this site and I’ve never been. See ya, redneck.

          • Rasputin
            November 16, 2017

            “What is your definition of a “Black Nationalist?” A Black individual who wants the culture to build their own economy (banks, businesses, etc.) and communities (churches, schools, medical facilities, ethnic organizations) to become a vital part of the overall economy? Like the Semetic and Asian people have done. Are THEY called separatists? Or a Black individual who wants to discriminate, mistreat, and eliminate anyone who is non-Black? I’ve heard and read the definition both ways.”

            How do you build your “own” stuff like that WITHOUT racially discriminating? What would you call white people who advocated that whites build “their own” banks, businesses, communities, churches, schools, hospitals, and “ETHNIC ORGANIZATIONS”?

            It’s one thing for a neighborhood to do that to try to lift itself up, even if that neighborhood happens to be mostly one skin color, but to make it about race instead of geography, complete with “ethnic” (actually racial) organizations is something else. It sounds like you’re saying that yes, you’re a black nationalist.

            Plus you’re dodging the worst elements addressed. My very straightforward question asked you specifically if you disagreed with any aspects of Nation of Islam/Ali/Malcolm X doctrine. They explicitly opposed racial intermarriage, promoted racial separatism, saw white people as inhuman “devils” who were inherently the enemy of dark skinned people, and viewed Jews as “Satanic”. The NOI still embraces those beliefs. Do you? If not, which ones do you disagree with and why?

            Why is it taking you several posts to even answer this straightforward question, Joseph Wright? Why is it so difficult for you?

            “Only someone with thin skin would go over the top calling someone a racist after “a mildly racist joke.” ”

            Not what I did of course, but only someone REALLY thin skinned would go over the top calling someone “racist”, “redneck”, and a “skinhead” who didn’t make ANY racially bigoted comments, LOL.

            “Additionally, only a thin-skinned bigot would say “Malcolm X was an evil man,””

            Or someone who quoted him taking pleasure in the mass deaths of innocent people just because they were white. Apparently you don’t see that as evil. Got it.

            “and compare Muhammad Ali to Hitler (Dr. Martin Luther King was all willing to go to jail for his beliefs and convictions. Rasputin: “Yeah. So was Hitler!”) SMH.”

            Only as an analogy to illustrate the stupidity of you claiming that being jailed automatically makes one a hero regardless of the cause he’s being jailed for, moron. And that was in response to you praising Ali, not King, you sleazy weasel. I’m the one who praised MLK by pointing out actual positive contributions he made. Your hero Malcolm X called him a “chump” and worse. “X” opposed the civil rights movement as a waste of time and specifically opposed integration.

            “Ali was comparing the nature of tigers to White racists. Keep up, redneck. Not White people as a whole. “”

            Wrong, moron. From your own quote:

            Ali: “We Muslims don’t hate the White man. It’s like we don’t hate a tiger. But we know that a tiger’s nature is not compatible with people’s nature since they love to eat people. So we don’t want to live with tigers. It’s the same with the White man. The White race attacks Black people. They don’t ask what’s your religion, what’s your belief? They just start whupping heads.”

            He’s talking about “the White race”, not just “racists”. He’s saying being racist toward blacks is inherent in the white race’s “nature”, so he doesn’t think black people should live among whites. HE’S expressing his own racial bigotry.

            This is all standard NOI doctrine. Nothing surprising about Ali saying it back when he was an NOI member. Why are you trying to spin and defend black separatist sentiment? Do you share it?

            ““Two, as long as White racists behave toward Blacks as they have been (behaving racistly, violently, discriminatinatory) why would any Black individual want to stay amongst people that are mistreating them?”–Me
            “Who? Racists who are mistreating black people or ‘white people’?”–Rasputin.
            What part of “as long as White racists behave toward Blacks as they have been (behaving racistly, violently, discriminatinatory)” don’t you understand, skin-headed redneck?”

            What part of me trying to educate you by pointing out the difference between “racists” and “white” people (or any skin color) in general do you not understand, you Nation of Islam supporting, bigoted halfwit?

            ““Saying you want the races kept separate is the definition of separatism, moron. Ali was David Duke with a different skin color. Period.” You’re fighting a losing cause, idiot. No person with common sense will ever buy into your lie that Ali was equivalent to Hitler or your hero David Duke (The man who personally thanked Trump for defending the White Nationalists and White Supremacists–“a lot of good people”– in Charlottesville).”

            Any honest person who looks at NOI and Black Panther doctrine supporting racial separatism would equate them with Duke, you lying scumbag. And I never equated Ali with Hitler, moron. I showed how empty your argument was since it could be applied to lots of other villains, even Hitler. Do you really lack the mental acuity to follow our respective arguments here?

            LOL! You really want to try to play the standard liberal BS guilt by association argument when you’re explicitly supporting NOI and Black Panther pukes? Trump has done nothing but condemn white nationalists. He said that not everyone at that rally was a white nationalist, which is true. Even if you disagree with him on that, he’d simply be wrong about who was there, not defending white nationalism.

            Meanwhile Islamist terrorist sympathizers have actually appeared with Hillary Clinton at rallies, like Omar Mateen, the father of the Orlando night club mass killer. That father was described by CBS as having “well-known anti-American views” and being “an ideological supporter of the Afghan Taliban”. He even hosts a California-based satellite tv show in Pushto targeted to Afghan immigrants promoting the Taliban and attacking the US, in effect trying to radicalize them. His own son has murdered a lot more people than the modern KKK has. And of course vast numbers of other unsavory people have endorsed Clinton and other Democrats over the years, including black nationalists and Hispanic La Raza bigots (La Raza literally means “the race”), viewing them as the best vehicle to advance their own racial/ethnic causes (Republicans preferring to treat people as individuals instead of playing racial identity politics, and favoring assimilation into a color blind society). I’ve heard black nationalists describe certain white liberals as “friendly devils” over the years (and with less flattering language). Heck, even the California-based KKK chapter endorsed Hillary Clinton last year, showing how dicey guilt by association charges can be. You lose on that front too.

            “When Blacks move into White Neighborhoods in bunches, the Whites usually disappear. Even when the Blacks are not bringing any trouble. THAT is separation.”

            More like when whites are already leaving property values lower (supply and demand), letting poorer, often black people come in. Actually the most obsessed over trend now is the opposite: white people coming into predominately black neighborhoods and black people opposing it, calling it “gentrification”. You were saying something about “separation”?

            “6) “Ali was a generally ignorant man for much of his life.”–Rasputin
            He was a Baptist for the first 20 years of his life and an Orthodox Muslim for the last 42. He was in the Nation of Islam for 12 years. Generally (= more than half), much (= a large part). Given that “much” is a relative term (great advantage for any liar whose expert in moving the yardsticks). If, for the sake of an argument, being in the Nation of Islam is “ignorant,” 12 out of 74 years of life is hardly “generally,” and not many people would say 12 is “much” of 74. And I’M the one who sucks at math?”

            LOL! He was ignorant in the time leading up to him joining the NOI too (it’s not like he suddenly became ignorant). That’s 32 years of his life until he left the NOI (almost half), certainly “much”. By “generally” I was referring to the scope of his ignorance, not a time span, moron. Plus I don’t think he was ever a rocket scientist even in the second half of his life, when he seems to have abandoned his earlier racial bigotry and become somewhat smarter, apparent brain damage aside.

            “And I’M the one who sucks at math?”

            Yes, among many other things.

            ““a much stronger strain of anti-black sentiment in the Arab world than in White America at the time?” That depends on one’s perspective. How do you, as a card-carrying White racist, measure that?”

            I’m not a racist, liar, and I already told you I measure that by the Muslim African SLAVE trade still thriving well into the 20th Century (stopped by Western pressure; those “white” “tigers” you hate so much), and various bouts of Arab ethnic cleansing of blacks into more recent history. Rabid anti-black sentiment is still widespread in the Arab world, seen in examples ranging from disgusting depictions of Condoleezza Rice in political cartoons to Arab nationalists ethnically cleansing blacks from Darfur to pervasive racial epithets I won’t repeat here that are thrown at black immigrants in predominately Arab countries. In 2010 a star black soccer player who goes by Shikabala resigned from the Egyptian national team because racial taunts against him during games got so bad.

            “Harris was carried to those by Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Bob Lilly, Harvey Martin and Randy White.”

            Not according to pass defense stats or the accolades you hypocritically embrace when discussing other players. Those Cowboys teams were dominant across the board. They wouldn’t have been as great if they had a liability anywhere.

            “Bradshaw, Swann, and Stallworth ran wild threw Cliff Harris”

            Not as wild as teams (even Pittsburgh and Stallworth, LOL!) ran through Tatum’s secondary, as I extensively proved with stats (aka facts) on the Lee Roy Jordan page.

            “Several problems that you sweep under the rug as deceptive liars who call themselves “historians” do. A lawsuit is impossible because:
            A) Jefferson’s racist ass dropped dead centuries ago
            B) Something called “statute of limitations.”
            C) He was well within the law of the South to rape Hemings.”

            I was responding to YOUR dumb “cash in on the Jefferson estate” comment, not saying they actually had a valid basis for any such claim.

            Regardless of whether you feel that Heming’s black descendants are lying about the consensual romance, my point was that YOU were lying when you blamed the story on “white racists”. That was another spectacular faceplant on your part.

            “You accused Ali of “using” Howard Cosell and Angelo Dundee to dismiss their relationships in a desperate attempt to confirm your lie that Ali was a racist and a bigot. So I posed the question about whether or not Jerry Jones “used” Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, Deion Sanders, and Charles Haley.”

            Of course they use each other, moron. That’s what professional relationships are. I think Jones and his players also have sincere friendships to a much stronger degree than Ali did with white people during his NOI phase (judging by his own comments), but that’s beside the point. I wasn’t condemning the act of professionally “using” someone. I was explaining to you why your dumb argument that Ali had a couple of white “friends” (more like coworkers) doesn’t mean he didn’t hold the racial nationalist views he said he did. Those were professional relationships by which he had gained financially. At best he was talking out both sides of his mouth and endorsing racially bigoted views.

            “McNabb was hardly overrated. He was one of the best QBs of his era.”

            His completion percentage was below the NFL average. He failed to win a Super Bowl in the parity era despite having a great defense. His passer rating was barely above the NFL average. He was too dumb to understand the basics of OT rules (costing his team at least one potential win and embarrassing himself in the press conference afterwards), and his lack of physical fitness cost his team in the clutch in the Super Bowl. Yet he was sent to 6 Pro Bowls and slathered with all sorts of hype through most of his career. McNabb is one of the most overrated QBs ever.

            “Manziel was over-hyped, drafted in the first round, and was a flop in the NFL.”

            A lot of people predicted he’d be a flop in the NFL, moron (why my Cowboys passed on him despite needing a QB, rightly taking Zack Martin instead as I was hoping they’d do), despite him posting great passing stats in college and being the only man to win the Heisman as a Sophomore. They even suggested he switch to WR before he ever played a down in the NFL, and the Browns’ (the Browns, LOL!) drafting him late in the first round was considered a risky gamble. He was given a very short leash (shorter than Randall Cunningham’s) and was quickly out of the league more for off the field behavior than on the field performance. You have no point. In fact the Manziel example supports some of my arguments, but not any of yours.

            “Griese went to many undeserved Pro Bowls, Is inaccurately credited with the perfect season of ’72, and was given Ken Stabler’s spot in the HOF in ’90.”

            Griese won 2 Super Bowls and led the league in completion percentage and passer rating in different seasons. He was more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Stabler was, and certainly than McNabb is, LOL!

            “McMahon was drafted in the first round and was all up in our faces from ’85-’88, all the while being called great, when he was in fact being spoonfed victories and an impressive record by Walter Payton and the Bears’ Defense.”

            I don’t know many people who considered McMahon to be a “great” QB. He made 1 Pro Bowl. He received coverage because of his punkish, “in your face” personality, a personality that also derailed his stint at Chicago, and because he at least managed to win a Super Bowl with his great defense (unlike McNabb). Plus McMahon won the SB in the Great Team Era, when every Super Bowl champion had to be at least good on both sides of the ball (unlike the Parity Era, where even championship teams are typically only really good on one side if that).

            “Jeff George was the first pick in the draft and had a generally disappointing career.”

            And is commonly described as such. George has zero Pro Bowls, and you have zero point.

            “Limbaugh is a racist gas bag.”

            No, but Joseph Wright is a racist gasbag.

            You completely dodged my question, coward. How come my “drop in the bucket” post you’ve been crying about is still there? How come it hasn’t been deleted? By your own insipid logic doesn’t that mean it’s not “racist” or “offensive”? If not why not?

            You’ve been buried under your own lies, you bigoted moron.

          • Rasputin
            November 18, 2017

            Obviously I meant Johnny Manziel was the first freshman to win the Heisman.

          • Rasputin
            November 14, 2017

            Because I’m in a generous mood, to save you some embarrassment and space, I’ll preemptively help you out by pointing out that I said Tatum didn’t win “championships” plural, unlike Cliff Harris. I could already see that would likely have tripped you up.

          • Rasputin
            November 9, 2017

            “You’re the one who brought up race, Razzie, after I made a humorous connection to the movie, White Men Can’t Jump, to crack on Harris’ pitiful attempt to cover Lynn Swann.”

            No, my Louis Farrakhan supporting friend, before you explicitly raised race (which you just again admitted you did first with your WMCJ line, moron) you had spent a long time bashing Cliff Harris for supposedly having no athleticism while hyping up what an awesome athlete Tatum was. This was strange since I had already educated you with facts showing that Harris was athletic. You kept insisting otherwise based on no facts. Your WMCJ crack opened a revealing window into your thinking……no……your FEELINGS on the matter. And then you doubled down on it with idiotic comments like this….

            Joseph Wright: “It’s players like Cliff Harris, Larry Wilson, Dick Anderson and Bill Bates that USC’s Sam Cunningham exploited that gave Paul “Bear” Bryant the vision and validation (to closed-minded, in-denial Confederates) to update his talent pool. The Larry Wilsons and Cliff Harrises were out and the Tatums and Ken Houstons were in.”

            ….that were undeniably racial. Of course none of those guys you listed were exploited by Sam Cunningham or had anything to do with Alabama or that 1970 college football game. They certainly weren’t “out”. Harris had played at a small school and was just starting his NFL career at the time. He’d go on to be first team 1970s All Decade, his career coinciding almost exactly with your beloved Tatum’s (who was drafted high but wasn’t as good).

            Dick Anderson played at Colorado, which had been one of the first schools in its conference to integrate back in the 1950s. He was consensus All American in 1967 and went on to have a multiple Pro Bowl NFL career. In fact Colorado claims credit for supposedly getting Alabama to integrate by beating them in the 1969 Liberty Bowl a year before your famous USC/Alabama game (the less Hollywoodish truth is that Alabama wasn’t good during that span and lost even worse to some other all white teams, not that it matters). Dick Anderson’s own little brother Bobby was still a captain on that team and he later explained that when told they could only bring one captain to the coin toss they all wanted it to be a black player. This underscores the magnitude of the ignorance in your flippant comment.

            Wilson came out of little Utah and cemented his spot in the NFL by using his athleticism to pioneer safety blitzing (“exploited”, lol?). Between that and his high interception rate he’s judged as one of the greatest players in NFL history.

            All of these players but Wilson started AFTER Ken Houston did, and some played after Tatum, LOL! Bill Bates didn’t play until the 1980s and, while he was a serviceable safety, he was the best special teams player in the NFL. He was so good they invented the special teams slot just so they could finally send him to the Pro Bowl.

            They all thrived in the integrated NFL. These weren’t borderline players but the best in the league at their position. Heck, Harris and Waters succeeded great black Cowboys safeties like Cornell Green and (for a while) Mel Renfro who had played in the 1960s, and raised the pass defense to an even higher level.

            So your claim was factually wrong. By saying a bunch of players “like” (a bunch of white guys you list) were “out” after integration, you reveal your racial prejudice and ignorance.

            “You say you weren’t offended (lie), then go WAY over the top with race-baiting as you say I disparage him because he’s White. One person can’t find a joke funny and offensive at the same time. Get some thicker, more objective skin.”

            It’s hilarious that you’re saying that when you’ve been weeping buckets for countless posts over alleged “racism” by Zimmerman (simply because he suggested Randall Cunningham should maybe switch to RB after his first two dismal passing/great running seasons in the league, LOL! But mostly just a lame attempt to discredit his negative opinion of some of your beloved Raiders’ HoF worthiness), by me (based on absolutely nothing; just a lame defensive deflection attempt; “I know you are but what am I?”), and by just about everyone else (mostly BS).

            You’re the textbook example of a racially bigoted race baiter with hyper-thin skin. You’re also the one following me around like a butthurt stalker crying “racist” and starting these arguments back up. Otherwise I wouldn’t give you a second thought.

            No one was “offended” by your clumsy attempt at humor, little Joey. But you’re wrong. Such a joke can simultaneously be unfunny, not spark outrage, and objectively reveal a window into your sentiment (one confirmed by your other, serious posting). I point out all this stuff objectively showcasing your racial prejudices, dishonesty, and general stupidity because it’s interesting given the context in which you try to attack others.

            “This after you wrote: “Your other comments made clear that you really do dismiss white safeties (among others) in general as garbage because of their skin color.” Now you’re backpeddling, saying you never said that was my only factor.”

            Wrong. You DO dismiss white safeties “in general” as garbage because of their skin color. I always said you hated some of those guys for other reasons too (like they were Cowboys). You’re the one backpedaling by trying to name some exceptions of white safeties you like (as opposed to the ones “like” the several you listed whom you wrongly said were “out” after integration).

            “As for Anderson and Bates, they also were slow, unathletic and wore number 40.”

            Harris wasn’t. He had more in common with Darren Woodson than Bill Bates in the overall skill set and career department. Not skin color though right, bigot?

            “Quite likely, given the times, he was “sprinting” against segregated (all-White) competition, his vertical obviously didn’t impress anyone enough to EVEN draft him (Warren Moon, by contrast, wasn’t even invited to the scouting combines–slick racist move to make him go undrafted.”

            There was no scouting combine when Moon came up in 1978, you idiot. The first one was in 1982 and even then not every team or high profile player was involved. Moon likely misspoke, and meant that he got few if any private workout invitations.

            If you weren’t so ignorant on football history you’d know that in Cliff Harris’ day the scouting system was really primitive. Players from small schools like him were usually overlooked completely. Dallas was ahead of the curve on finding hidden talent, and the 39 inch vertical came in a private workout with a Cowboys scout, which may have been the only one HE got. Dallas didn’t need to draft him because they were the only ones paying close attention to him.

            More relevant is the fact that Harris almost immediately earned the starting job and went on to have a first team All Decade career. And no, Ouachita Baptist and other schools in that conference had began integrating in the early to mid 1960s. Certainly the NFL was integrated even earlier.

            “It is possible to be slick and ignorant, Razzie. See Richard Nixon)”

            I’m tempted to show you’re ignorant (but not slick) on EVERY topic you raise (I’m not a big Nixon fan but the expert bipartisan consensus is that he was one of the most intelligent and knowledgeable presidents ever; if anything he WASN’T “slick” since he went down for what should have been a small scandal after LBJ, JFK, and FDR had gotten away with far worse), but this is too tangential.

            “He was judged the “best free safety of the 70s” by Zimmerman. I’m sure Harris would have gotten votes from Lester Maddox and Jimmy the Greek, too.”

            Harris was judged first team All Decade free safety by the HoF selection committee, you idiot, after being named to 6 Pro Bowls and 3 first team All Pro selections by a combination of players, coaches, and the broader media. And Jimmy the Greek was the one who thought blacks were superior athletes, dumbass. You and Jimmy have a lot in common on a variety of issues.

            “The anchor of that defense, saving Harris and Waters’ slow, unathletic asses was the front four.”

            Wrong, chump. That defense wouldn’t have been as great as it was if it had liabilities (“garbage”) at any position. Unlike the Tatum Raiders who consistently had one of the worst pass defenses in the league (as I educated you on with stats on the Lee Roy Jordan page), Doomsday had no weaknesses. The Dallas pass defense climbed to consistently around the top of the rankings during the Harris/Waters tandem era, as the strength of the secondary shifted from the CBs in the early 70s to the safeties in the decade’s second half. Dallas had a great front four in the early 70s too featuring some of those guys you mentioned like Lilly, Pugh, and Cole. Objective facts refute you.

            “Any free safety who plays for a decade and comes up with fewer than 30 INTs for a career is pathetic. Translation: garbage.”

            I disagree. But then I actually know something about football.

            It’s also funny that you place so much importance on interceptions (which you likely only do because Tatum with 37 has SLIGHTLY more than Harris in the regular season) when Larry Wilson has 52, Charlie Waters has 41, and Waters holds the career playoff record.

            “Of course, readers, Razzie will add in Harris playoff INTs to get him to 30 and beyond”

            Says the hypocrite who repeatedly said this…..

            “The regular season stats mean nothing.”
            “regular season stats are an illusion”
            “Those are regular season stats that can be inflated”
            “The regular season stats are empty” – Joseph Wright

            ….when I posted stats showing how much better Harris’ Cowboys were than Tatum’s Raiders, especially in pass defense. LMFAO!

            Then I pointed out that Harris has three times as many playoff interceptions as Tatum, LOL! Harris also has as many total regular season takeaways as Tatum and more than Tatum counting the playoffs.

            So which is it, moron? Is it only regular season or only playoff stats that matter? Both? Neither? Find a position and stick to it, you cringing buffoon.

            “Cookie Gilchrist would have run roughshod over Harris.”

            I doubt it, but if he did he would have run roughshod over everyone else too.

            “Oh, wait. Actually, Harris would have looked for a place to hide. Just like he did with Larry Csonka and Earl Campbell.”

            LOL! While Harris and Doomsday shut down Csonka cold in the 24-3 Super Bowl stomping, it was Tatum who got “alligator arms” and let Csonka run right past him for a TD, making a Deion Sanders-like business decision (Csonka wasn’t a helpless WR stretched out for a pass, you see). I even told you where to find the video of that. By contrast Harris played with a fearless recklessness and never “hid” from anyone.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 9, 2017

            I was simply coming DOWN to your level, given your fetish with the regular season. I maintain, any free safety who plays a ten-year career and gets less than 30 regular season INTs is pathetic. Translation: garbage. Jack Tatum had 37 and Cliff Harris had 29. First you say I name “lots” of White safeties to disparage and you name three (Larry Wilson, Dick Anderson, and Bill Bates). Now, you’re saying Tatum had “SLIGHTLY” more regular-season INTs than Harris. Seems to me, according to your world, Tatum had “lots” more INTs than Harris. Do you understand what “relative” means? If three is “lots” how can eight be “SLIGHTLY.” Constantly moving those yardsticks to prove lost causes.

            And now, the University of Colorado turned Alabama’s view on Black players around? GTFOH! LOL!! Did they have an all-Black backfield? What was the score? Who was Colorado’s QB. Who was Colorado’s offensive star for that game? Bobby Anderson? I saw the film. The key players in Colorado’s comeback win (they were trailing the Tide after three quarters) were White. They had seven Blacks on the team. Whooptie-damn-doo. The Trojans had at least five on offense and at least six on defense. All I know is several of Colorado’s players complained of the horrible racial slurs used against them before and during the game. You conveniently left THAT out. Colorado University or USC? Let’s hear from the Bear himself: “We played Southern Cal in 1970, and they had a Black running back named Sam Cunningham,” Bryant was quoted once by The New York Times as saying. “He came down here and ran all over our skinny White kids. Scored three touchdowns. He did more for integration in Alabama than anything else.”

            You lost again, junior.

          • Rasputin
            November 10, 2017

            “I was simply coming DOWN to your level, given your fetish with the regular season.”

            What does that even mean? You just posted two big paragraphs of flustered sounding garbage that didn’t address any points I made. Presumably this line was in reply to me skewering you in hilarious fashion with several of your own quotes claiming the regular season doesn’t matter, in response to you selectively posting regular season stats (like interceptions) when you find it convenient to your position and dismissing the PLAYOFFS in your previous post. Unlike you, I’ve never dismissed either the regular season, playoffs, OR stats in general (remember when you called them “meaningless” “numbers”, LOL?).

            “I maintain, any free safety who plays a ten-year career and gets less than 30 regular season INTs is pathetic.”

            You already said that and I said I disagree. Repeating your arbitrary, baseless opinion won’t persuade me to change my mind. I care more about pass defense stats, accolades, and team success ( it’s not even close in all three categories), but since you’re placing all your eggs in the interception basket….

            Interceptions (regular season)
            Cliff Harris – 29
            Jack Tatum – 37

            Interceptions (playoffs)
            Cliff Harris – 6
            Jack Tatum – 2

            Total Takeaways (regular season)
            Cliff Harris – 47
            Jack Tatum – 47

            Total Takeaways (regular season and playoffs)
            Cliff Harris – 57
            Jack Tatum – 51

            “Garbage”? Oh, and while a pleasant throwaway line from Bryant doesn’t change the facts I posted, he didn’t happen to support your bigoted, idiotic claim by commenting negatively on any of those great NFL players you used that college game to attack did he? Didn’t think so.

            “Constantly moving those yardsticks to prove lost causes.”

            They should put that on your tombstone.

            You lose again, Joey. As always.

          • Joseph Wright
            November 11, 2017

            “but since you’re placing all your eggs in the interception basket….”

            Interceptions (regular season)
            Cliff Harris – 29
            Jack Tatum – 37

            Interceptions (playoffs)
            Cliff Harris – 6
            Jack Tatum – 2

            Total Takeaways (regular season)
            Cliff Harris – 47
            Jack Tatum – 47

            Total Takeaways (regular season and playoffs)
            Cliff Harris – 57
            Jack Tatum – 51″

            So, the only way you can get Harris ahead of Tatum is by “takeaways.” Basically, you have to add fumble recoveries. Weak yardstick moving, even for a coward like you.

            Could you clarify what this means: “(Bear Bryant) didn’t happen to support your bigoted, idiotic claim by commenting negatively on any of those great NFL players you used that college game to attack did he? Didn’t think so.” WTF?

          • Rasputin
            November 12, 2017

            “So, the only way you can get Harris ahead of Tatum is by “takeaways.””

            And by Pro Bowls, first team All Pro selections, All Decade status, Super Bowls, pass defense statistics, and film study, LMFAO.

            You walked into that one. Man, cracking you in the head with that metaphorical sledgehammer felt good. Like old times. : )

            “Could you clarify what this means: “(Bear Bryant) didn’t happen to support your bigoted, idiotic claim by commenting negatively on any of those great NFL players you used that college game to attack did he? Didn’t think so.” WTF?”

            Did Bryant ever say anything negative about the guys you listed, like Cliff Harris, Dick Anderson, Larry Wilson, Bill Bates, etc. , or indicate that he viewed them as similar to the “skinny white” kids from his own team he mentioned and threw under the bus in the quote you posted?

            Or are you the one drawing that connection and associating those great NFL safeties with Bryant’s comment?

          • Joseph Wright
            November 2, 2017

            “If you’re below the league average in completion percentage you aren’t a HoF QB. Period.”

            One name of a fully legit Hall of Fame QB: Joe Namath! (Of course, Zimmerman and Razzie are uncomfortable because Joe hung out with the Black players. Oh, well.)

            Doug Williams: “Stats are for losers.”

          • Rasputin
            November 2, 2017

            Wrong, little Joey. Even Namath’s completion percentage was above the league average. In fact he ranked in the top 3 or 4 in completion percentage every year in the AFL. He also led the league 3 times in yards (twice AFL, once NFL). McNabb did none of those things. And Namath is probably the most controversial, borderline QB inclusion in Canton given his unspectacular stats. Everyone admits he’s pretty much just in due to the “historical importance” of leading an AFL team to its first SB win.

            That he’s the best example you could come up with and you’re even wrong on him just proves my point.

            PS – And no one’s “uncomfortable” because Namath hung out with black players, moron. LOL!

  2. bachslunch
    October 17, 2017
    Reply

    Cookie Gilchrist is another great short career RB who probably won’t quite have enough of a career to make Canton. For four seasons, though, he was arguably the best RB in the AFL, and his stats plus honors profile of 4/4/alAFL makes him arguably the best RB of that league. Rick, you’re right that putting the raw stats of his CFL and AFL careers together would easily be PFHoF worthy, and as it is he’s rightly in the CFL Hall just for his accomplishments there (given that folks like Warren Moon and Doug Flutie are enshrined for 6 and 7 year careers). It also appears he was a two-way player in the CFL (at LB) and performed kicking duties for a couple seasons. And his civil rights track record, helping spearhead the AFL All Star Game boycott alongside Art Powell especially, is a plus for his case. Excellent write-up.

  3. Kerouac
    October 17, 2017
    Reply

    Hall of Fame voters bias toward the AFL/other leagues having already been addressed, will not add the narrative (other my agreement with said fact being the sad case.)

    Nor will I give my 2¢ regards real or imagined racial divides ‘then’ or ‘now’ (my arguments ‘would’ support specific aspects one hand and ‘would not’ support others.)

    Perception as bias being in the eye the beholder, whether HOF voting or interpretation topic other, do say that as life in America, enjoyment mine pro football pales today, comparison yesteryear. Today, football has become (along with money, taxes, religion) one of the things that you’re almost better off not talking about. When you cannot watch or read or talk about a football game without an political demonstration or debate breaking out, it’s time to consider alternatives.

    With that, will end with a sad memory to begin but a bit of levity in its conclusion.

    It was December 1965, the Denver Broncos and Cookie Gilchrist were playing the Chiefs in Kansas City. It was the last game the season with both teams going nowhere but home for the holidays.

    KC had just lost an great young RB name of Mack Lee Hill, he having died five days earlier in the course operation following a knee injury. CB Fred Williamson, one of the toughest hitters in pro football, was, like Cookie Gilchrist, in his first year with a new team.

    Late first quarter at KC’s 44 yard line, Cookie took a hand-off and went right, turned the corner, then headed toward the end zone. 6’2 251 lb. Cookie came face to face with Fred his 6’3 219 spectacle. ‘Hammer’ at the ready, but discretion proving the better part of valor, one of them blinked first. An ole! and 360 later – Voila! – Cookie finished the td run.

    My vote: Cookie to the Hall of Fame.

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